tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post115689116526268738..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Orthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1157135802222736082006-09-01T14:36:00.000-04:002006-09-01T14:36:00.000-04:00I've seen shoe marks on doors, ripped chairs, and ...<I>I've seen shoe marks on doors, ripped chairs, and other physical damage, too.</I><BR/><BR/>How about thousands of dollars in plumbing repairs due to damage from unsupervised children? Personally, I don't think my shul dues should have to pay for the damage inflicted by the children of negligent parents. But, naturally, we all end up paying for the negligence of others.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1157130969021272922006-09-01T13:16:00.000-04:002006-09-01T13:16:00.000-04:00Plenty of parents have one specific, consistent ap...Plenty of parents have one specific, consistent approach to disciplining their children---never to do it! I'm not talking about whipping anyone into line, I'm talking about everyday verbal discipline. So when parents like this are in shul on Shabbos, their little darlings are somewhere outside the sanctuary yelling, crashing into each other and others, leaving a trail of food; you name it. I've seen shoe marks on doors, ripped chairs, and other physical damage, too.<BR/><BR/>I suppose we adult observers should be relieved when these kids get older, and, while they still avoid the davening (religiously!), they quietly play cards or toss footballs around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1157117252792285902006-09-01T09:27:00.000-04:002006-09-01T09:27:00.000-04:00Interestingly enough Jack, I've found all four sit...Interestingly enough Jack, I've found all four situations equally as "touchy" although it defies logic. <BR/><BR/>There are some parents that are fine when you tell their children no, and some that just go nuts. And, it doesn't seem to matter if they just nabbed a cookie while the kiddush was being set up, or if they just kicked your child and you stepped in.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1157094753276507772006-09-01T03:12:00.000-04:002006-09-01T03:12:00.000-04:00It is a fine line that you have to walk. Situation...It is a fine line that you have to walk. Situations 1 and 2 are pretty straight forward, but I can see how 3 and 4 might create some touchy situations.Jack Steinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16625864271071630940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1156943263633277692006-08-30T09:07:00.000-04:002006-08-30T09:07:00.000-04:00Welcome Litvak. I keep picking up great commenter...Welcome Litvak. I keep picking up great commenters and am learning more and more. :) <BR/><BR/>Mom in Israel-I'll check out your post.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1156930596851674132006-08-30T05:36:00.000-04:002006-08-30T05:36:00.000-04:00I responded on my blog.I responded on my blog.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1156921191686714962006-08-30T02:59:00.000-04:002006-08-30T02:59:00.000-04:00The Torah tells us 'viayir pereh odom yivoleid' - ...The Torah tells us 'viayir pereh odom yivoleid' - a person is born uncivilized, like a wild donkey. Although some children are better by nature than others, humans must be taught certain things. <BR/><BR/>Chazal tell us that beikivisa demishicha 'chutzpah yisgei' - in the period of the footsteps of Moshiach (im yirtzeh Hashem), brazenness will increase. This is part of brazenness - to hate people who offer correction. Plain old brazenness. We know that Az ponim ligehinnom - the brazen faced are headed to Gehenna - but nevertheless some 'frum' people have become azei ponim and think they are still fully 'frum'. These people causing terrible damage to the image of frumkeit. Just like there is an expression 'white trash', describing people, who are lacking in refinement, I think there is, G-d help us, 'frum trash', types of people who outwardly follow rituals, but act coarsely and brazenly, and are severely lacking in derech eretz. May G-d help us outlast and turn back such types of people, who may be from the 'erev rav', before it might be, chas vesholom, too late.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1156919803996713962006-08-30T02:36:00.000-04:002006-08-30T02:36:00.000-04:00SL is right on the mark here. These last two posts...SL is right on the mark here. These last two posts have been excellent.<BR/><BR/>We know that derech eretz kodmoh laTorah. Derech eretz must be taught and enforced. What kind of sane 'frum' parents would object to you helping them with such a vital task ?<BR/><BR/>Shlomo hamelech, the chochom mikol odom, wrote in sefer Mishlei, 'Hochach lichochom viye'ehovecho - al tochach letz pen yisnoecho' - meaning 'Rebuke (or maybe better to write correct, as rebuke has acquired a negative connotation over the years) the wise man and he will LOVE you - however, don't rebuke the scoffer, lest he hate you'.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that some, if not all, of the parents, who so vehemently object to others disciplining their 'little angels', are the type that don't take well to correction themselves.<BR/><BR/>Is this what the 'frum' world has come to ? Hashem help us.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1156910906014498172006-08-30T00:08:00.001-04:002006-08-30T00:08:00.001-04:00Great post. I was thinking today about your previ...Great post. I was thinking today about your previous post and was glad that you followed up. There probably is no easy answer, except being consistent. Consistent with your own kids and keeping that consistency with other parents kids. I think that if people know that you don't put up with certain behavior, b'klal, then it's easier if you end up playing police officer to children that are not yours.Neil Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12797772082427806345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1156910893403221912006-08-30T00:08:00.000-04:002006-08-30T00:08:00.000-04:00Great post. I was thinking today about your previ...Great post. I was thinking today about your previous post and was glad that you followed up. There probably is no easy answer, except being consistent. Consistent with your own kids and keeping that consistency with other parents kids. I think that if people know that you don't put up with certain behavior, b'klal, then it's easier if you end up playing police officer to children that are not yours.Neil Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12797772082427806345noreply@blogger.com