tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post3086999797723879580..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Guest Post: The Age Gap TheoryOrthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger148125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-28298533680966271242010-06-02T20:43:53.389-04:002010-06-02T20:43:53.389-04:00I think it is all nonsese as the religious world h...I think it is all nonsese as the religious world has not proven that birth rates have gone up for the last 20-30 years which would need to be the case for this problem to exist. Most birth rates are going down because of women focusing on career's and wanting to be little men and likely the same is true in Orthodoxy but Orthodox has never proven that their birth rates are going up in the last 20-30 years. <br /><br />In fact if more people are unmarried that means the birth rates are going down since those that are unmarried have a birth rate of zero. In fact overall I am sure are overall birth rates are going down as more people are unmarried and the few that have large families don't make it up for the larger number unmarried. <br /><br />Case in point. I went to a singles event this weekend. The Guy I roomed with. He was 45 his sister 40 both unmarried. Younger brother is married with six kids. (Why men that are usually the youngest with older sisters do better is another issue for another time but anyway.)Overall birth rate of 3 children 2.0. If you exclude the 2 unmarried of course it is a birth rate of 6 but that is a dishonest study if you only include those that are married which is what some of the studies do that claim we have high birth rates although don't talk about if they are gonig up or down in the last 20-30 years. <br /><br />So I think this is all untrue since if more people are unmarried overall birth rates will be lower not higher and the Orthodox hasn't proven their birth rates have gone up just claim they do which I highly doubt to be quite frank. <br /><br />In the Encyclopdia I have of a few years ago Orthodox Judaism was the only group not to release it's numbers and are numbers are a very small part of total Judaism and yes you can manipulate the statistics to pretend otherwise but if we did an overall survery are numbers are a very small percent of total Jews and Orthodoxy does not want to release it's numbers to any encyclopedia which I doubt is for modesty reason's since they brag how high their birth rates are although I don't see it and they know it. I see cases like above where one kid in a family has 6 kids and the others have zero which overall is a low birth rate unless you exclude those that are unmarried.<br /><br />So I think this is all hogwash and just to promote feminism which yes most Rabbi's support feminism because they want to be the only influence on women and don't want father, husbands, or any other men to have influence as they are afraid of those men in many respects because they actually<br />are overall better people then some Rabbi's and Rabbi's are afraid of losing influence which much of it is through women although their profession is all men but they don't like men who aren't part of their clique.Adam K https://www.blogger.com/profile/02021938340159347269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-23194682593319201492010-05-27T02:16:57.673-04:002010-05-27T02:16:57.673-04:00Getting back to the orginal post a nd the SC:
--I ...Getting back to the orginal post a nd the SC:<br />--I think the age gap is the single biggest contributing factor. The new aspect about this is that average family size among OJ have grown in recent decade(s). If the average family size is around 6 children, and average OJ newborn is born when their parent is 27) that means population triples every 27 years. That means the population is growing 4% per year. So a 4 year age gap is 16% population gap!! Nothing to sneeze at.<br />--I think this age gap turns into a crisis as follows: boys have the upper hand (by 16%) and thus they get the suggestions first (because the boys are more likely to reject the idea having the upper hand by 16%). <br />--The boys are then drowning in names and paralyzed by all the choices and options. The girls all sound great thus they do a months worth of research before going out.<br />--So "The boys are lost in a forest and the girls are lost in a desert". They are both lost.<br /><br />--This excess choice increases the list of things people consider (from Money, yichus, location, tablecloths)<br />--Both Boys and girls are going out far less frequently than they could if the balance were closer to equilibrium. <br />--Mothers are taking control of and micromanaging the process not to mention introducing their own interests (families they would like to be associated with - would bring them honor to be related to).<br />--Mothers having experienced some of the challenges of life and being less ideal are not looking for love. They know how much financial pressures can weigh on people and focus more on money. <br />--Family becomes a more important criterion because the couple is now more dependant on parents for financial support. This makes couple more involved with families (visit more often) so strain with parent in-law becomes a more significant and discussed issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-65853688194050806382010-05-17T22:45:19.759-04:002010-05-17T22:45:19.759-04:00Nu, Ahavah Gayle, what happened with your son?
In...Nu, Ahavah Gayle, what happened with your son?<br /><br />Inquiring Minds Need To Know!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-18799185398765341802010-05-16T17:04:14.931-04:002010-05-16T17:04:14.931-04:00Dear Soroh,
If I took your advice, I would never ...Dear Soroh,<br /><br />If I took your advice, I would never have had my four children, since diabetes runs rampant in my family and my grandmother and great-grandmother have both died of strokes related to diabetes at an old age, and my mother (who refused to cooperate with doctors and also smoked) died of heart disease related to diabetes and smoking at a young age. I had terrible gestational diabetes every time I was pregnant, making all my pregnancies high risk. And yet today I am medicine free and have four wonderful children. <br /><br />I'm sorry your outcome was bad, and I am not unmindful of your point. But none of us can know the future. A perfectly healthy girl could be hit by a car crossing the street, or contract MRSA or lyme disease or fibromyalgia or cancer any number of ruthless and unexplainable diseases. Especially cancer. I was a widow at 20 - my late husband died of cancer at age 28. His family was ukrainian and I have since learned early death is a problem amoung people of eastern european descent. So should everyone refuse to marry eastern europeans? The future cannot be known - seemingly healthy people with healthy families get sick every day, and people from high risk groups do just fine.<br /><br />There is no such thing as a zero-risk marriage.Ahavahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795309173195607578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-11810238902190445122010-05-16T16:54:30.899-04:002010-05-16T16:54:30.899-04:00For those who are curious, my son boarded a plane ...For those who are curious, my son boarded a plane this afternoon for NY to meet with the girl and her family for the last time. He will return home Tuesday. Either he'll be engaged, or we'll be back to square one, I don't know which. At this point all I can do is trust that whatever happens is Hashem's will and will work out for the best. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments here and private emails, too. I hope everyone has a great Shavuot.Ahavahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795309173195607578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-28133224049929108862010-05-16T12:45:59.738-04:002010-05-16T12:45:59.738-04:00Shocking New Research about Age Differences
The N...<b>Shocking New Research about Age Differences</b><br /><br />The <i>New York Post</i> of May 13, 2010, printed <br />an amazing article at the bottom of page 3, <br />which quoted an article by NewsCore. It said:<br /><br />The British <i>Daily Mail</i> newspaper reported new research, based on the death records of almost two million Dutch men and women.<br /><br />When a woman married a man younger than she was, she increased her chances of an early death, and the younger her husband was, the harder it was for her health.<br /><br />The same study concluded that the effect was reversed when a man married a younger woman.<br />When a man married, the younger his wife was, the longer the husband lived.<br /><br />See the original article at: www.nypost.com/p/news/international/sorry_cougars_boy_toys_hazardous_EREVSkqpuB7SEUTZLCvqEKMr. Cohenhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/DerechEmet/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-16054411390682193222010-05-16T01:29:54.051-04:002010-05-16T01:29:54.051-04:00So everyone is objectified.
I'm not sure tha...So everyone is objectified. <br /><br />I'm not sure that qualifies as an improvement.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-16540562378446836332010-05-16T01:28:37.864-04:002010-05-16T01:28:37.864-04:00Dave - I don't think that anyone who has objec...Dave - I don't think that anyone who has objections to this girl because of her insulin pump, wouldn't voice the same objections had it been the other way around and it was a boy/man with an insulin pumpmlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-91447533312057664902010-05-15T23:33:30.875-04:002010-05-15T23:33:30.875-04:00Lots of girls complain that there are not enough b...Lots of girls complain that there are not enough boys for them to marry, but how many of those girls would seriously consider marrying a <i>Baal Teshuvah</i> or Sephardic man? Or a "working boy"?<br /><br />I know a woman whose father was 15 years older than her mother, and her mother died before her father!<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />Anonymous Average ManAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-69090619730406075742010-05-15T16:38:56.533-04:002010-05-15T16:38:56.533-04:00And people say the secular world objectifies women...And people say the secular world objectifies women.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-49673243606435871942010-05-14T06:52:31.855-04:002010-05-14T06:52:31.855-04:00"I know people with OCD that are very difficu..."I know people with OCD that are very difficult to live with."<br /><br />And I know people without OCD who are very difficult to live with. Perhaps the point should be that there are no guarantees that come with a marriage. Sort of like a poker hand. You can start out with two "cards" that seemingly should not go together and yet they produce a "winning" hand. And you can start out with a perfect pair of aces and lose. It all depends on the skill and dedication of the players involved.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-32853023593985262632010-05-13T22:55:35.109-04:002010-05-13T22:55:35.109-04:00you are fortunate that it is under control. I know...you are fortunate that it is under control. I know people with OCD that are very difficult to live with.megapixelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-6914577263087660952010-05-13T20:59:36.168-04:002010-05-13T20:59:36.168-04:00I find these comments about shidduchim with people...I find these comments about shidduchim with people who have illnesses terribly terribly sad. My husband has obsessive compulsive disorder. BH, knowing that it was controlled, we moved forward with the shidduch. Let me just say that I am the most fortunate woman in the world. He's an amazing husband and father, a good provider, and a talmid chacham. Frankly, he would have been far out of my league in the shidduch scene except for the short-sightedness of those who couldn't look past the ocd to see his many many maalos. Baruch Hashem. Their loss, my gain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-21584045227118746102010-05-13T19:31:38.938-04:002010-05-13T19:31:38.938-04:00Her brother is married, because his wife made a de...<i>Her brother is married, because his wife made a decision to stay with him despite the sicknesses.</i><br /><br />You seem to find this incredible. I think it is a matter of basic loyalty once you are married.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-64058830013414963132010-05-13T19:01:49.273-04:002010-05-13T19:01:49.273-04:00Shidduch crisis today = tuition crisis tomorrow = ...Shidduch crisis today = tuition crisis tomorrow = retirement savings crisis next week (not to mention all the mini 'crises'--2nd and 3rd car crisis, bar mitzvah crisis, chassuna crisis, Pesach food crisis)<br /><br />This is when you need to run away for a Shabbos and weekend and simply contemplate Hashem's world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-80696762363031151172010-05-13T16:16:47.002-04:002010-05-13T16:16:47.002-04:00LOZ, what crisis? :-)
Like Al, I met my wife on m...LOZ, what crisis? :-)<br /><br />Like Al, I met my wife on my own in a social environment (HASC). If we continue this separation of the sexes at all costs what do you expect to happen. We tell these guys there whole lives that girls are assur and they can't talk to, look at or think about them and then we send them out to the "scene" and tell them to date marry and don't give them much guidance on what to do afterwards. Then we scratch our heads and beat our chests about the shidduch crisis, it is of our own making.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-66305696851176372532010-05-13T16:09:57.133-04:002010-05-13T16:09:57.133-04:00Numbers are unknown, since the books of all yeshiv...Numbers are unknown, since the books of all yeshivos are closed.LifeActnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-32951131819658902872010-05-13T16:01:39.987-04:002010-05-13T16:01:39.987-04:00Prof K: Intersting point. Anyone know what % of pa...Prof K: Intersting point. Anyone know what % of paretns pay full tuition at their local school? What % pay minimal (<50%)? What % of budget is met by tuitions? <br /><br />With that info, we can try to figure out how much lower tuition would be if eeryone just paid their 'full share'. <br /><br />My definition of full share = <br />Total budget less profit on dinner. Of course that is subject to disagreement.<br /> <br />Numbers anyone?numbers guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-43296779054446687642010-05-13T15:28:22.260-04:002010-05-13T15:28:22.260-04:00Lion,
The two--tuition and shidduchim--are actuall...Lion,<br />The two--tuition and shidduchim--are actually tied together in many cases. Marry off a 21 year old to a 19 year old, neither of whom have completed any training for parnoseh, have the young man sit and learn for at least a few years after marriage, have that couple first start building any kind of parnoseh just when they start sending 1, 2, and more kids to school, have the school give them tuition reductions, have the school raise tuition for those who are paying, and you see that a shidduch crisis is one factor that can cause part of the tuition crisis.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-82672530076387901502010-05-13T15:03:47.837-04:002010-05-13T15:03:47.837-04:00Thank you Lion. I share your disgust. I sure hop...Thank you Lion. I share your disgust. I sure hope that this woman or anyone else with a similar perceived "defect" doesn't read this blog. I do however, wonder if ignorance and prejudice is a heredetary problem that should be avoided like plastic table cloths.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-37496381514908936942010-05-13T14:16:50.425-04:002010-05-13T14:16:50.425-04:00i'm disgusted by the dissmisive attitude towar...i'm disgusted by the dissmisive attitude toward the prospects of diabetics for shidduchim, especially allthe comments based on ignorance of basic medicine.<br /><br />i am also amazed how much many people who literally bank on "bitachon" in every aspect of their daily life suddenly become so practical. <br /><br />SL:<br /><br />as much as i appreciate this well-written guest post, the supposed shidduch problem doesn't affect me (at least not directly). so can we please get back to more pressing issues like the tuition crisis? :)Lion of Zionhttp://agmk.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-55484234389738135232010-05-13T12:24:10.564-04:002010-05-13T12:24:10.564-04:00I am very happy that I was able to meet my wife in...I am very happy that I was able to meet my wife in a normal, healthy environment. We dated, had fun, fell in love, and then freely decided to spend the rest of our lives together.<br /><br />That said, given the high divorce rate in America, where 35% of first marriages end in divorce (the 50% figure is of all marriages, and is skewed by serial divorcees, over 60% of first marriages end by the death of a partner, i.e. marriage for life), and the lower historical rates of marriages failing, I see no evidence that arranged marriages failed to produce more lasting relationships.<br /><br />Honestly, at 18-25, your concept of what you want in a partner is skewed by not living life yet. If you haven't had to pay the rent, expenses, etc., you don't understand what marriage is.<br /><br />Marriage IS primarily a business relationship, movies aside. You have a financial partner with whom you share your life, goals, and children with. If you pick a partner that shares those goals, you will hopefully have a long life together. If you pick a partner for superficial reasons, you will not.<br /><br />I realize that the Shidduch process has gotten increasingly superficial and silly, with minor issues being blown up to all proportions. Despite that, I hope that anyone whose children are in that system will do their best to make certain that their perspective spouse shares their goals, hopes, and dreams.<br /><br />My wife and I share those goals, hopes, and dreams, and when things are rough, we don't fight with each other. Knowing that it's us against the world, and she is on my side at all times is critical. I see so many people always complaining about their spouse, it's tragic.<br /><br />After you are married, nobody "cares" about how you met (except to ask and make small talk). Whether it's an arranged marriage (I know some second generation upper-caste Indians with ACTUAL arranged marriages), a shidduch, or falling in love, if the person shares your goals and is on your side, the world is open to you. If the marriage is filled with fights, anger, and hatred, it is much tougher.<br /><br />I know people that love Torah and Judaism, and take any opportunity to learn, either via Chevruta or Shiur. I know others that seems bored when there, have no interest in actually learning, that seem to use it as an excuse to "get out of the house," and while I realize that this is a better "outlet" from a bad marriage than other less than kosher pursuits, I am saddened that their home life is so bad they find an activity that they appear to loath because it's a socially acceptable way to run away from their life.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-44110011697686008042010-05-13T11:48:37.875-04:002010-05-13T11:48:37.875-04:00These people do not marry for love. They barely kn...These people do not marry for love. They barely know each other. So, the marriage for them is to form a partnership and make babies.<br /><br />It's easy to trick a husband into having babies. You tell him you are taking care of it, you just "neglect" to do it. Viola, there is a baby nine months later.mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-64542025510528367542010-05-13T11:35:26.937-04:002010-05-13T11:35:26.937-04:00mlevin: I did not say that people should not have...mlevin: I did not say that people should not have shared goals with respect to whether or not to have a family and how many children, my problem was with your statement that the only purpose of marriage is children.<br /><br />with respect to your other post about a wife "tricking" her husband into having children, I presume he knows the birds and bees. If you are a man and have sex without a condom or without getting your tubes tied (which presumably your friend did not do as an orthodox man), then the possibility for children comes with it. Even if the wife takes on the health risks of going on the pill, that is not failsafe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-85227920447187682472010-05-13T11:17:53.350-04:002010-05-13T11:17:53.350-04:00"If this is true, then no one would have more..."If this is true, then no one would have more children than enough to fulfill pirya verivya, and no one would ever adopt a special needs child or take in foster children."<br /><br />My neighbors had one baby and then they realized that having children is not for them. So, they just stopped at that point. <br /><br />Before adopting a baby with special needs one has to be trained and be ready for it. Do you know how many marriages break up because they had a special needs baby.<br /><br />My cousin's husband did not want to have children. She knew it from a get go. She ended up getting pregnant by accident and he insisted on an abortion, but she did not have one. Now he loves kids so much that he wants her to have more and more. <br /><br />I know a woman whos husband did not like children. That was the reason why he divorced wife number one, because living with a baby is beyond his tolerance level. She tricked him and had a baby. He moved out... moved back in... moved out... moved back in... She had a baby number two. Eventually he moved back in under one condition that she will abort all following pregnancies. She agreed and had two more abortions. Now, twenty years later they are fighting like cats and dogs and he is still perpetually moving out. Do you call that a healthy marriage?mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.com