tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post3990285359974409494..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Ask Orthonomics: Stay Out of DebtOrthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger125125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1094895032197950042012-05-06T22:01:35.588-04:002012-05-06T22:01:35.588-04:00I'm leaving the blog to get married to a surge...I'm leaving the blog to get married to a surgeon in another city. Good luck to you all. By the way, the anonymous commenter who noted that I should not have been blogging while in mourning - I was not yet in mourning. Shiva only begins after the funeral. My father had died a few hours earlier. If he felt my behavior was inappropriate, then he should have said that. It was not however, unhalachic. <br /><br />I hope you all work out your problems - without my unnecessary presence.Understandingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-20263215416189990642012-05-03T13:38:21.829-04:002012-05-03T13:38:21.829-04:00I work as an entitlement counselor for a social s...I work as an entitlement counselor for a social service agency in the Bronx. The amount of aid available is often surprising and it much easier to qualify now for assistance than in the past. It is hard to know what you might qualify for if you have never applied for assistance in the past and a good starting point might be to contact your local federation office. You should not be embarrassed to get help if you need it. <br />Thanks for the forum,<br />IsaacAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-69201448962663645172012-05-03T06:15:15.409-04:002012-05-03T06:15:15.409-04:00In these hard financial times, we need help in lea...In these hard financial times, we need help in learning how to better utilize entitlement programs. I know several people who was in financial trouble who waited too long to get help. Perhaps the community could sponsor financial planning workshops that focus of the benefits associated with these programs and eligibility requirements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-76944121456662370292012-05-02T10:31:23.689-04:002012-05-02T10:31:23.689-04:00Eat Meat (Yum!):
Your "Five Towns" scho...Eat Meat (Yum!):<br /><br />Your "Five Towns" schools are not really "RW" the way posters here use the term. If they were, you would not be sending there!<br /><br />I believe the Far Rockaway/Lawrence community specificly is unique in the number of "working men" who are treated with Chashivus by Rabbonim for their (those who work) Torah. It is not "RW", but it is not "MO" either (at least as of now. Lets see what happens over the next decade). As such, it can't be compared to either the Lakewood or Teaneck communities.Nephew of Frum Actuarynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-4932610334744593942012-05-01T05:45:39.929-04:002012-05-01T05:45:39.929-04:00My observation is that the MO lifestyle has become...My observation is that the MO lifestyle has become class stratified over the past 20 years. There are a few big spenders who have money, or at give the impression that they do, who call the shots, a lot of hangers on who are just making do, a growing number of families who are over their heads financially, and a small number of dysfunctional families who often receive a disproportionate amount of negative attention. This would make for an interesting sociological study. Unfortunately, I don't think that his stratification makes for a viable long term society.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-65910534006146963262012-04-30T23:28:10.390-04:002012-04-30T23:28:10.390-04:00"3 Children in some communities paying for fu..."3 Children in some communities paying for full tuition can be done for as 100K."<br /><br />To be fair, I was only including MO to RW Yeshivish communities where secular studies are a serious part of the curriculum (and tuition is $8K - $18K per child). And I was including paying proper taxes, insurance, day camp while both parents work, shul dues, etc. <br /><br />Dave,<br /><br />JFS is raising tuition for Bergen County families to $9000 all inclusive (including door-to-door transportation). That doesn't change your argument (it helps it, actually), but I thought you should know.<br /><br />Anon 2:31,<br /><br />Yes, some people made poor decisions that have consequences. But pointing this out and saying negative - but completely true - things about people is the very definition of lashon hara. Joking about it makes it worse, not better.Avi Greengarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14267040237664555562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-24578637915849235762012-04-30T22:01:48.499-04:002012-04-30T22:01:48.499-04:00I imagine you also feel a loss for something you n...I imagine you also feel a loss for something you never had, such as marriage and children? And is it halachicly proper to leave blog comments when in mourning?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-38806899191409424932012-04-30T14:31:57.129-04:002012-04-30T14:31:57.129-04:00Anon 6;20
If it's true, why not say it. Most o...Anon 6;20<br />If it's true, why not say it. Most of those who got themselves in hot water got there because of poor choices that they made. We joke of the time at my son's school, and don't really mean anything by it. So lighten up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-36511204779413088182012-04-30T13:42:18.583-04:002012-04-30T13:42:18.583-04:003 children in jewish day school paying fill tuitio...3 children in jewish day school paying fill tuition requires a family to have income anywhere between 90,000 to 400,000 depending on the Orthodox community and the Jewish school chosen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-74339720594134486132012-04-30T12:14:20.621-04:002012-04-30T12:14:20.621-04:00"I've run the numbers. If you want to hav..."I've run the numbers. If you want to have a family of 3 - 5 children, live near a shul, and send them to private school, you need a family income of $200 - $350,000 per year. I know that's a big range (some areas are cheaper and some people live more frugally than others). But that's really the baseline, even if you live frugally in a low cost area."<br /><br /><br />3 Children in some communities paying for full tuition can be done for as 100K.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-6002051030961647572012-04-30T08:57:13.859-04:002012-04-30T08:57:13.859-04:00Understanding, Baruch Dayan HaEmet. So sorry for y...Understanding, Baruch Dayan HaEmet. So sorry for your loss.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-77974342498689771782012-04-30T06:20:47.957-04:002012-04-30T06:20:47.957-04:00I have observed over the years as a Yeshiva staff ...I have observed over the years as a Yeshiva staff member who is not orthodox that there seems to be an effort to not help others in need and to encourage them is a passive manner to move on. We had a family in our community who had both financial and, in my opinion, emotional problems, and they were basically shunned by the community. This family left the state and became nonreligious, and the common refrain was "good riddance." This is sadly not an unusual story, and many, in our area at least, talk very badly and make fun of others misfortune behind their backs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-34067414466332518082012-04-30T01:27:57.026-04:002012-04-30T01:27:57.026-04:00The family crisis I was referring to is the loss l...The family crisis I was referring to is the loss last night of our beloved father. If you have not yet lost a parent, you cannot imagine the devastation you suffer. I certainly could not have. Rather than use the local funeral home, the Rav of my father's lifelong shul has offered his shul as a place for the levaya - funeral. This will be much less expensive than the for-profit funeral home, and also much more meaningful, as my father was a close friend of the late rav (his son is the current rav) and I was best friends in elementary school with his daughter. How many shabbosim we davened and played together! our family faces a devastating loss, but not alone. We are together in our hearbreak. Sorry, I know this is an irrelevant commnt. Perhaps this is why I am understanding. I understand loss. Loss of a Jewish education is one such loss. A terrible loss, but in the cases described here, may be the only solution.Understandingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-45959712677636614672012-04-30T01:17:47.066-04:002012-04-30T01:17:47.066-04:00We replace the one family computer every 5-8 years...We replace the one family computer every 5-8 years and have a minimal Jitterbug telephone used by one parent only for emergencies, not recreational yapping. We have no i-Phones, no i-anything. I have Bose QC 15 bought over time to keep out the world and its noise, which allows me to think clearly. We have a savings account built up over the years through frugal saving, so we can handle the current family crisis at least financially, and seek emotional support from family and friends. We DO NOT SPEND MONEY except on what is free - walks in the park, library books, Torah study, going to shul. We bring lunch to work. (Shul dues? We tell the shul we wish we could afford to support the shul with a full membership, but are able to make a contribution to the best of our ability, which is currently $100. We have never been refused admission to shul. We do pay for the overflow minyan for the Yomim HaNoraim.) I work one full time job and two part time jobs. I am able to save one third of the income of my full time job so as to our retirement account. We have experienced great kindness and understanding from the rabbi and shul admnistrator in our family crisis. It is relevant that we have not been blessed with chilren; however, the sustenance and love we receive from 50-odd nieces and nephews gives us happiness no money could buy. We are grateful. I do feel for you and the pressures you are under.Understandingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-19888358334529665892012-04-30T00:08:21.555-04:002012-04-30T00:08:21.555-04:00I appreciate all your commments explaining how muc...<i> I appreciate all your commments explaining how much more expensive things are now than in earlier generations. I still think that we have too many electronic toys and "needs" that are wants. </i><br /><br />We have lots of "needs" that are really wants. <br /><br />Assuming your children are actually planning on working for a living, some of those actually do start looking like needs. Even leaving aside the usefullness of a reasonably recent computer for schoolwork and research, they are going to be competing with peers who are natively fluent in modern technology. And that technology is a requirement in the modern business world.<br /><br />But, let's look at some numbers. Assume a family with 4 grade school children. Assume one family computer updated every three years, plus Internet access. Rough cost: $1100/year. <br /><br />But with a family of six, maybe one isn't enough. Let's buy a new computer each year, so that we have three computers in the house at all times. Rough cost is now: $2100/yr.<br /><br />But these children can hardly be expected to do without smartphones! A new iPhone every other year for everyone in the whole family! That adds a cost of roughly $600/yr, plus the phone plans. We'll triple that, and call it $1800/yr all up!<br /><br />That brings us to, what, $3900 for a very generous family electronics plan. But, that means no iPads! So let's add another $1500 a year to buy a new iPad for everyone every other model year. Our price tag is now $5400.<br /><br />Now, the cheapest Modern Orthodox Day School I know of is JFS, at $8500/yr (for tuition plus bus service).<br /><br />So, even being really generous with our electronic doodads for the whole family, the cost of electronic largesse is $5400, the cost of tuition for all four children is $34,000.<br /><br />There are issues with conspicuous consumption, but they aren't the root of the problem. Large families and private education don't mix well, unless you are very wealthy.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-15468606076359914982012-04-29T22:26:56.859-04:002012-04-29T22:26:56.859-04:00So you are claiming that the stories in YWN and VI...So you are claiming that the stories in YWN and VIN are untrue? It isn't me claiming that the rebbeim in many schools went unpaid for many months, it's the RW media making the claim! Interestingly enough, in the hundreds (Maybe even thousands) of comments on those articles, not one person ever denied it and said that it was untrue.<br /><br />Maybe (definitely!) the 5-Towns schools are better off than the ones mentioned in the RW media articles? After all, the 5-Towns in general is much more affluent than many other areas such as Lakewood, Crown Heights, etc.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-8214927333338020102012-04-29T22:14:21.485-04:002012-04-29T22:14:21.485-04:00my long-time chavrusa is a rebbe in a RW (all boys...my long-time chavrusa is a rebbe in a RW (all boys) school; my wife teaches in a RW all-girls school. Neither has ever missed a pay check. Both located in FR/5 Towns. <br /><br />Accusing RW schools of this whne it is untrue is clearly an issur d'oiraisa.eat meat on 9 avnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-59623928353707832252012-04-29T22:08:46.036-04:002012-04-29T22:08:46.036-04:00Eat meat ... - but RW yeshivas are much better beh...Eat meat ... - <i>but RW yeshivas are much better behaved in this regard.</i><br /><br />Oh, much better behaved, they will allow kids to attend even without prompt payment, and instead will simply not pay their employees for months at a time. Only problem is that the former is "nice", while the latter is transgressing a "d'oraisa".Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-47119794377633858562012-04-29T22:05:47.059-04:002012-04-29T22:05:47.059-04:00SM - Let's just say that Oshkosh Middle Schoo...SM - <i> Let's just say that Oshkosh Middle School would never think of running a class Ski Trip, wetting the appetite. But Yeshiva of Metropolitan Area doesn't bat an eyelash.</i><br /><br />Ski trip? Ha! At our local school, the 8'th grade class trip is to Israel for 10 days!Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-38211259502549254392012-04-29T22:04:51.009-04:002012-04-29T22:04:51.009-04:00Sam W - (1) Go to your rabbi and tell him, This st...Sam W - (1) Go to your rabbi and tell him, This story is disgusting. (2) post the name of the school and the Exec Dir. maybe if people tell him they "know", this nonsense will stop. You are probably NOT the only one. (3) I cannot believe I am saying this, but RW yeshivas are much better behaved in this regard.Eat meat on T Bavnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-53841730996959998892012-04-29T18:54:45.954-04:002012-04-29T18:54:45.954-04:00Sam W.,
Sorry about your situation, but, whatever ...Sam W.,<br />Sorry about your situation, but, whatever you do try to keep your kids in their current school. They will lose their identity if they go to public school and both you and they will be ostracized if you make this move. Perhaps you can take out a personal loan, but whatever you do, do not let you kids leave the community.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-61521430127288839092012-04-29T18:46:53.333-04:002012-04-29T18:46:53.333-04:00Avi Greengart, excellent practical advice.
I wan...Avi Greengart, excellent practical advice. <br /><br />I want to tell you all what my close friend told me tonight. I had told her I am anticipating suffering due to a family situation. She told me, "My mother lost 5 children and then starved for a year. My mother suffered [in Auschwitz]. What you are anticipating is discomfort." I asked her, how did your mother survive the selections? My friend said that her mother's friend, seeing she was joining the line toward death to be with her 5 children, physically pulled her back to the line for life. They ate potato peels from the garbage. For a year. "That is suffering," said my friend. "My mother told me," she continued, "that if I could lose my 5 children, I could bear anything." My friend said to me, "What you are going to go through is discomfort, it is not suffering." <br /><br />This gave me perspective. My friend's mother remarried after the war, had two more children, and my friend has had 11 children and numerous grandchildren. She has stood by me through the crisis of my life.<br /><br />This has nothing to do with the tuition crisis you all face. But perhaps it will put some perspective into what you are going through.<br /><br />I support "not Jay Wagner" chose public school. Provide your children with a Jewish education outside of public school. Teach them yourself on Shabbos. Keep them from bad influences. I wish you hatzlacha.Understandingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-46836948777581786022012-04-29T18:29:34.951-04:002012-04-29T18:29:34.951-04:00Sam W.,
If you live in Teaneck, please go to Proj...Sam W.,<br /><br />If you live in Teaneck, please go to Project Ezra - they can do an honest assessment of your finances and intervene on your behalf with the school. If you don't have a similar service to avail yourself in your area - and your Rabbi's Discretionary Fund is equally inaccessible for help - then you do what you have to do with your head held high. Judaism does not require private schools, it requires that you teach your children Torah. I wish you the best in your job search.Avi Greengarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14267040237664555562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-37854609442065030992012-04-29T18:02:16.449-04:002012-04-29T18:02:16.449-04:00To we will eat meat on T"B this year: Tuition...To we will eat meat on T"B this year: Tuition breaks were not enough for us & the "community" wasn't willing to make up the difference. Too much stress brought on by watching one friend after another go down in flames was enough for us to decide to make our decision re: PS v Yeshiva. As I like to tell people who have harsh, judgmental words for me: Please feel free to send a check for $2K/month to us & then you earn the right to tell me how to raise my children. Lectures about bitachon & emunah are simply wonderful but life isn't a happy ending Art Scroll book. The bank isn't interested in your emunah, they want their money, plain & simple. Oh & btw so does the Yeshiva. I was called irresponsible by an administrator when I was late with "building fund" check. There is another aspect to all of this no one seems to mention but what about the dishonesty tuition breeds? Google: Menachem Youlus & the Torah rescue scam. His excuse for stealing: tuition for his large family. For the record there are other scams going on daily for the same reason & I can name many. I will not steal to pay tuition. I'd rather raise honest 'frier' Yidden than thieving ones.End of story.I am not Jay Wagnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-30938947599652607722012-04-29T17:52:49.169-04:002012-04-29T17:52:49.169-04:00Sorry, the above comment 5:51 is from "Unders...Sorry, the above comment 5:51 is from "Understanding".Understandingnoreply@blogger.com