tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post4100805446245010267..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Orthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-31863072665761991492007-05-02T14:46:00.000-04:002007-05-02T14:46:00.000-04:0052% of kids under 18 hareidi in Israel? Not a cha...52% of kids under 18 hareidi in Israel? Not a chance. The article itself says that 1 in 4 babies are born to hareidi families in 2006. 1 in 4 << 52%, and it was probably less than 1 in 4 just five or ten years ago.<BR/><BR/>Latest estimates show dati leumi and hareidi together making up about one third of the Jewish population and 25% of the total population of Israel in another 18 years. We shall see.<BR/><BR/>As for tuition, I don't have much to say. Tuition can be tough here too, but nothing like it is stateside. Our main financial crisis seems to be the post-army crisis, but that's not nearly so bad IMO. Good luck to all of you American parents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-38870955859213005302007-05-01T10:43:00.000-04:002007-05-01T10:43:00.000-04:00FYI, this is about Chareidi institutions in Israel...FYI, this is about Chareidi institutions in Israel pooling their buying power:<BR/><BR/>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/index.php?p=6475Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-12041675016138817842007-05-01T09:57:00.000-04:002007-05-01T09:57:00.000-04:00Concernin the JO's insulting comment about "wealth...Concernin the JO's insulting comment about "wealthy suburban day schools" and public schools <BR/><BR/>There is plenty of wealth in flatbush and boro park - they just choose not to fund their yeshivas and pay their mechanchim<BR/><BR/>suburban parents sacrifice greatly to send their kids to yeshivas and pay the mechanchim on time (mitzvas aseh midiorayso) and a living wage <BR/><BR/>suburban parents have a choice there are excellent public schools to choose from - brooklyn parents have no choiceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-77472367891036963662007-05-01T09:33:00.000-04:002007-05-01T09:33:00.000-04:00It makes me laugh when chareidi yeshiva parents co...It makes me laugh when chareidi yeshiva parents complain about tuition. My brother who sends his kids to a chareidi schools can send five kids (including all the discounts) for the price I pay for one <BR/><BR/>That is why the modern orthodox world will be subsumed and dominated by the chareidi world - the chareidim can reproduce and support those kids in yeshiva for a pittance compared to mainstream orthodox (it won't be long before chareidi judaism is mainstream)<BR/><BR/>when it comes to summer camps and college - the discrepancy just gets wider <BR/><BR/>the modern orthodox child is the most expensive child in america to raise - the charedi child can be raised for just a little more than the public school kid (when college and high suburban re taxes are considered) satmar kids are definitely cheaper than public school kids. <BR/><BR/>Within orthodox judaism - There is an inverse relationship between yeshiva tuitions and family sizeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-85023983689670362782007-05-01T08:54:00.000-04:002007-05-01T08:54:00.000-04:00the sub issue definately relates to the school's p...the sub issue definately relates to the school's philosophy. Does the sub coteach with the clsrm. teacher for a few days to learn the curriculumn, learn about the kids or are they a warm body? Yes the coteaching before and after the clsrm. teacher costs more but this is in the students best intrest and is thew most educationally sound method. Again these are decissions made by the school board, money, and the principal.<BR/>QueeniesmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-61842293150700245492007-05-01T00:30:00.000-04:002007-05-01T00:30:00.000-04:00Don't apologize for a long post Queeniesmom, I'm g...Don't apologize for a long post Queeniesmom, I'm glad you are still reading and commenting. <BR/><BR/>I agree with you that recess should not be cut. If I was in charge I would make sure more physical activity was the rule and I'm guessing behavior would be far better. Kids need to burn energy and cutting recess only hurts the class, the teachers, etc.<BR/><BR/>And I want certified teachers, especially at these tuition rates for the lower grades.<BR/><BR/>Having substituted, I feel that the maternity leave can be completely wasted time (not because of the sub, or at least not when I tried it). Considering the 1/6 of each school year could be with a sub, it should be a top priority to make sure that long term subs are supported to do the job and that they can do the job.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-84236995079466714462007-05-01T00:11:00.000-04:002007-05-01T00:11:00.000-04:00Halfnutcase, you're thinking re: el.ed teaching i...Halfnutcase, you're thinking re: el.ed teaching is flawed. These teachers need to know how to teach how to instruct reading, math and other skills, yes these skills are at a much lower level than HS but if the foundation isn't laid correctly then you can't proceed. a good education is done on the building block principle. This why many seminary girls and yeshiva bochurs are horrible teachers; they are clueless about key issues such as class management, no recess is not the answer, and how to teach a variety of students of all different levels, teaching to the middle is not acceptable. Teaching el.ed is MUCH harder than it looks! I did it for a number of years and now teach HS.<BR/><BR/>Given the tuition that we are all paying, every parent should expect a certified teacher in both leumudai kodesh and kol. my children's school has broken with "tradition" all teachers must be certified, many Rabbaim are coming out of YU's ed program and many teachers/rabbaim teach full day. Yes, some kids have lemudai kodesh in the afternoon but at least the rabbaim have a means of supporting their families. The half day positions tend to be the female teachers, not sure if this is done by teacher's request, many have kids, or program design.<BR/><BR/>A number of the schools have formed a consortium to buy supplies. Many schools are trying to be budget concsious but their fixed costs keep rising. This is where help is needed from a "super fund" or something. as parents we can't keep doing it on our own. For some perspective, my tuition bill for 3 kids in elementary school this year (NY area) was $31,000. Ours is not the most expensive school, probably mid-range.<BR/><BR/>Lack of decent health and pension benefits are problems for the teachers; we loose good english teachers to the public school. every few years. <BR/><BR/>Maternity leaves go with the territory, all 3 kids had teachers out this year. If the school is well run a system will be in place and there will be minimal disruption to the class. this is a true test of how organized your administration is.<BR/><BR/>Sorry so long, hope was helpful.<BR/>QueeniesmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-41278080653688307362007-04-30T22:22:00.000-04:002007-04-30T22:22:00.000-04:00halfnutcase! your right onhalfnutcase! your right onAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-90738484283217984542007-04-30T12:49:00.000-04:002007-04-30T12:49:00.000-04:00Anonymous-Another interesting issue. I think I mi...Anonymous-Another interesting issue. I think I might be able to touch upon in while I am reviewing the JO's Tuition Dilemma Issue. Please add any comments you might have. I certainly haven't seen a difference in tuition between boys and girls, yet I don't see the female teachers hitting the top of the pay scale.<BR/><BR/>Ari-Thanks for the link. I had no idea the under 18 Israeli population is 52% Hareidi. I assume the the Dati Leumi make up a good portion too. Do you think this is possible or a factual error?Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-23037616586872194752007-04-30T12:28:00.000-04:002007-04-30T12:28:00.000-04:00many comments to add, but must study.http://www.jp...many comments to add, but must study.<BR/><BR/>http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1177591158535&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFullLion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-48747360608387598042007-04-30T12:23:00.000-04:002007-04-30T12:23:00.000-04:00One issue that you may want to touch on is that sa...One issue that you may want to touch on is that salaries for women teachers are at many schools much less than those of rabbeim with the inevitable effect that tuitions for "the girls school" often subsidize "the boys school".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-23207076501319824792007-04-29T18:24:00.000-04:002007-04-29T18:24:00.000-04:00It owuld be interesting to get the figures taht sh...It owuld be interesting to get the figures taht show the diaprity of pay between female and male mechanchim. While it is true that many rebbeim work a somewhat longer day and have less time off (Sundays are mandatory) than moros, that alone does not account for their higher pay scale. When my husband was interviewing for chinuch positions (quite a ways back), he was told that smicha was worth $5000 of pay on a half-day job. That was more than the MA was worth. So how is a frum female supposed to get the same credentials as her male counterpart? Another plus that men ususally take advantage of while women rarely do is the tax advantage of parsonage. <BR/><BR/>It seems that both sides do not take the job for females as seriously as they do for males. It has become more than acceptable for a single female teacher who becomes engaged to schedule her wedding for during the school year and then move off to Lakewood with her new husband and leave her job. So the schools could argue that they have to factor in that possibility and replacement costs when calculating the pay scale for its female teachers.Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-33358264903664109892007-04-29T18:14:00.000-04:002007-04-29T18:14:00.000-04:00"Bob-I wasn't able to access the link. I will have..."Bob-I wasn't able to access the link. I will have to see if I can when I install the updates on our computer."<BR/><BR/>I've been able to access at work and on my own laptop.<BR/><BR/>Do you have the latest (free) Adobe Reader update? <BR/><BR/>Anyway, the article is about the Hasten family's recent action to make it possible for all tuition-challenged Jewish parents in the Indy area to send their kids to our local day school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-76715215808267421862007-04-29T13:19:00.000-04:002007-04-29T13:19:00.000-04:00I won't ever share the spreadsheet with you. We n...I won't ever share the spreadsheet with you. We need you to get what little sleep you can.<BR/><BR/>But, watch for an upcoming post of Coverdell Accounts that might help a bit :). I want to bring some hope to you too. :)<BR/><BR/>I'm afraid there are no solutions.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-46437757650429557112007-04-29T11:46:00.000-04:002007-04-29T11:46:00.000-04:00Yes, I still read your blog (I will try and call y...Yes, I still read your blog (I will try and call you tonight to explain why I've fallen off the face of the earth of late though I did get your voicemail on Wed night) and I was in the home of the author of the article entitled "Averting A Crisis In Jewish Education" just last night (we are very close). He's right, of course, and so are you. But solutions remain elusive and the crisis persists.<BR/><BR/>I've just lost my appetite and would ask that you not share the updated spreadsheet with me, I will have nightmares all over again. :(<BR/><BR/>Speak to you soon,<BR/>-MBMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02094774756526654009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-10734074848783184442007-04-29T05:05:00.000-04:002007-04-29T05:05:00.000-04:00In my high school, there were 2 rabbis who taught ...In my high school, there were 2 rabbis who taught much of the day - one taught Talmud, Chumash, Nach, Biology, Chem, and Physics. The other taught Talmud, Chumash, Nach, and psychology as well as being a guidance counselor and managing the drama club. Both were overall VERY respected.<BR/><BR/>Also noteworthy, it's getting to be a better and better economic decision to live in Israel, especially if you can telecommute to an American job.<BR/><BR/>A year in a good yeshiva high school runs $3000-3500 here. Up to 6th grade, the schools are generally under $1500 per year with all the extras. Not to mention that even the fancy houses around here go for about $400K... and you can get something very livable for $250K (in Modiin, at least).<BR/><BR/>Time for you guys all to come home!Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-47160094653668662532007-04-28T22:29:00.000-04:002007-04-28T22:29:00.000-04:00Everyone is leaving fantastic posts. Chaim-Great p...Everyone is leaving fantastic posts. <BR/><BR/>Chaim-Great point about supply and demand. It sounds like the "in town" places are suffering from their own success so to speak.<BR/><BR/>Aharon Fischman-I emailed you, but the email bounced back. If you would like to right a guest post, I'd welcome one. (Everyone else is welcome too).<BR/><BR/>Bob-I wasn't able to access the link. I will have to see if I can when I install the updates on our computer.<BR/><BR/>Another Jewish Accountant-Welcome. I actually think that we might see better behavior if the boys had Rabbis teaching a secular subject. Unfortunately the behavior issues drive away secular teachers in droves. What a shame! Also, goodluck with your rising tuition bill.<BR/><BR/><BR/>GREAT COMMENTS. KEEP THEM COMING.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-82295094433954111652007-04-28T17:11:00.000-04:002007-04-28T17:11:00.000-04:00In Israel the main elem. school teacher teaches To...In Israel the main elem. school teacher teaches Torah, Navi, holidays/halacha, Hebrew language, and math. They usually don't teach science and English. If they're not good at teaching math they trade subjects with a different teacher. As the boys do more advanced Jewish studies they study with a male "rav" for the relevant hours.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-3847919915305676672007-04-27T14:54:00.000-04:002007-04-27T14:54:00.000-04:00having a good grasp of material doesn't take an ex...having a good grasp of material doesn't take an expert.Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-23527551862183129672007-04-27T14:41:00.000-04:002007-04-27T14:41:00.000-04:00I had some excellent teachers in day school, espec...I had some excellent teachers in day school, especially in English (5th-7th Grade). While they taught nothing esoteric or even advanced, they had a good grasp of the subject material plus good teaching skills. That really mattered. Teaching skills alone would not have done the job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-84524330223846969132007-04-27T14:29:00.000-04:002007-04-27T14:29:00.000-04:00well for elementery school why should it matter? E...well for elementery school why should it matter? Elementary students told learn anything in enough depth for it to be an issue, and why shouldn't the teachers teach both subjects, why would kavod be an issue? all the more so, now the hebrew teacher is going to be able to intigrate the limudei chol in such a matter as that the children learn to see all the wonders of the natural world as an expression of g-dliness and something that can be used to compliment torah instead of treating it like an "other" that could possibly compete against torah (as if that were really possible).<BR/><BR/>for this I'm not talking about highschool. Junior and senior high is another issue all together, but for elementery they are not (in 99% of cases) capable of the questions that really require major esoteric knowledge by the teacher. Yes they tend to grate at the teachers weak point, but no they don't really know enough to need to know the depths of physics or gemorah.Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-24202870558652317592007-04-27T14:00:00.000-04:002007-04-27T14:00:00.000-04:00although it is more cost effective to have teacher...although it is more cost effective to have teachers teach a full day, i do not think the way to do that is to have the same teachers teaching both kodesh and secular studies. particularly for boys where there is an importance of looking up to one's rabbeim. I am not sure that having their rebbi also being a math teacher is the right kavod for these teachers. I would much rather see classes staggered throughout the day, and some kodesh classes in the afternoon to allow teachers to work a full day while teaching what they teach best. I know way too many great teachers (both secular and judaic studies) that wouldnt be good at teaching the other "half" of the curriculum. <BR/><BR/>although - if that is what it takes to make my $36,000 (and rising) tuition bill less likely to go up over $50,000 in the next few years, i'd say go for it!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-84921816063533669132007-04-27T13:30:00.000-04:002007-04-27T13:30:00.000-04:00No amount of razzle dazzle can make up for a lack ...No amount of razzle dazzle can make up for a lack of age-appropriate content.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-71087182420813225632007-04-27T12:37:00.000-04:002007-04-27T12:37:00.000-04:00Another jewish accountant:Elementary school studen...Another jewish accountant:<BR/><BR/>Elementary school students don't learn enough "serious" material for it to be much of an issue. Better someone who is competant at everything, and excelent at petagogy (the study and application of teaching) and that will get you by far the most bang for your buck. Someone who is simply awesome at something wont be able to give it over to the vast majority of elementary schoolers anyway, so whats the point? Better to reserve such specialists for junior and senior highschool. (or middle and high if you prefer, but it would seem to me to be better split in to junior and senior)Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-67146685938113513912007-04-27T12:22:00.000-04:002007-04-27T12:22:00.000-04:00When I went to teach for Rav Yehoshua Wender in Ho...When I went to teach for Rav Yehoshua Wender in Houston, he insisted on tuition breaks for the rabbanim teaching in the community, and no membership dues in the shul. That not only helped financially, but it helped morale (and had a good halachic basis). Unfortunately, I heard after I had left there that the 'constituents' no longer supported him on this, and that the situation had changed. I don't know what the present situation is there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com