tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post5187416411351299695..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Orthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-28105791684765427642010-01-11T15:50:51.810-05:002010-01-11T15:50:51.810-05:00Many write about the steep costs of a frum life. ...Many write about the steep costs of a frum life. It seems to me that any costs a frum life entails are a bargain if they result in a meaningful, fulfilling life. What people should be concerned about are the costs, which do not lead to a rewarding life but are a burden. Maturity involves making choices about what is best for oneself, not what others deem is best for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-33749620415896811202010-01-10T23:11:53.352-05:002010-01-10T23:11:53.352-05:00It seems that not only is there economic poverty, ...It seems that not only is there economic poverty, but also a poverty of values. This is quite amazing in a community that places such emphasis on spirituality. The work ethic is scorned, financial resources are wasted, dependency is not only accepted but sought after, looking good for the neighbors is more important that doing the right thing. Poverty of values must be dealt with before we can eliminate economic poverty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-28422438011752942852010-01-10T17:09:31.625-05:002010-01-10T17:09:31.625-05:00Offwinger, I know women who are not geniuses who m...Offwinger, I know women who are not geniuses who make decent money in crafts, clothing design, even as office managers. Not to mention executive assistants, where a pleasant manner, an ability to type and use email, and organizational skills can command a lot of $$$ in the corporate world. You don't start out there, you have to work your way up, but it's possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-66701208372109838212010-01-10T17:00:08.210-05:002010-01-10T17:00:08.210-05:00Miami Al,
Yes, I know what these careers earn. It...Miami Al,<br /><br />Yes, I know what these careers earn. It is a comfortable life, not what most people define as rich. This is especially true once you're counting on needing a dual-income household, which means that you'll have to deal with paying for child care or one of the income-earners being out of the labor force for a few years. <br /><br />At the core, though, I think you're wrong about "most sets of G-d given talents" creating the opportunity to earn $75K+ with education, hard work, and a willingness to deal with a low status profesion.<br /><br />First off, some people just aren't mechanically inclined either. More important, though, how many women do you know who are in auto mechanics and HVAC repair or plumbing? I'm not even talking about FRUM women. Women in general. I think what you mean to say is that there are solid-earning career paths for a MAN who works hard & is willing to learn and lacks academic skills. There *aren't* the same equivalent jobs for women, and to the extent we're assuming a household needing TWO incomes, it's an issue.Offwingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-82962005458110183402010-01-10T16:03:42.103-05:002010-01-10T16:03:42.103-05:00People put much more "effort" into looki...People put much more "effort" into looking good for shidduch dates than into their education/career path.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-13882032582225996412010-01-10T15:02:52.537-05:002010-01-10T15:02:52.537-05:00Offwinger, it's pretty easy to make $60k - $85...Offwinger, it's pretty easy to make $60k - $85k in Science and Technology, that's not early Google stock options filthy rich, but double that for a couple and that's comfortably upper middle class. Keep in mind that getting there requires a solid undergraduate degree and often a Masters degree, but the Masters in that area is usually free. I assume that in greater NYC, those numbers scale up to $75k - $100k.<br /><br />What I don't know is what career paths safely get you to $75k for people that lack a technical aptitude... Public school teacher in the humanities probably gets you close to there. No academic talents? Auto mechanics, HVAC repairment, plumbers, all are able to get to the $60k+ range. The fact is, for most sets of Gd given talents, there IS a reasonable career path to making $75k+ provided a willingness to get the appropriate education, put in the effort, and generally deal with a lower status profession.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-48937835458536499462010-01-10T14:07:40.145-05:002010-01-10T14:07:40.145-05:00Dave,
One can most certainly feel rich without ex...Dave,<br /><br />One can most certainly feel rich without extreme wealth. One can feel rich while living in extreme poverty. I am referring to wealth bechmarks as a statistical matter, in pure dollars and cents, not to Pirkei Avot.<br /><br />The fact that I feel rich doesn't pay my bills. The fact that I can pay my bills makes me feel rich. Neither statement is relevant in this dicussion about how people need to accept that they do not have the dollars and cents to make all their needs AND wants a financial reality.Offwingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-55814484871362218582010-01-10T13:15:48.847-05:002010-01-10T13:15:48.847-05:00Science and technology - like many other growth fi...<i> Science and technology - like many other growth fields - are not "get rich" careers. They are stable, bread-winning professions.</i><br /><br />I can meet every single one of my needs. I can meet an astonishingly large selection of my wants. And I can put money aside for both retirement and other expenses.<br /><br />That's "rich" in my book. It isn't "never need to work again", it isn't "go buy an island or a sports team", but I still feel pretty rich.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-27788853718640538172010-01-10T12:57:36.161-05:002010-01-10T12:57:36.161-05:00Miami Al,
I don't dispute your analysis one b...Miami Al,<br /><br />I don't dispute your analysis one bit. I was oversimplifying what I meant by changes in wealth over the generations. We're on the same page.<br /><br />Mlevin,<br /><br />You misunderstand me.<br /><br />There are plenty of opportunities to get rich. They are NOT available for everyone. In fact, they are not available for the AVERAGE frum person. <br /><br />If it is so easy to get rich in science and technology, then why isn't everyone doing it? Believe me, it's NOT because of our regents exams and the "dumbing down" of American curricular standards, in general. Top students are excelling in elite private schools or admissions-only public schools.<br /><br />And in the MO world, it's NOT because these careers are "goyish." How many frum engineers or computer programmers or science researchers do you know? I know many. Easily more than a dozen, just in my circle of family and friends, not even counting acquaintances. How many yeshivahs and day schools support students participating in Intel or Siemen's competitions? In my world, it's common. <br /><br />Note, though, that depending on the chosen field, the financial reward differ. Science and technology - like many other growth fields - are not "get rich" careers. They are stable, bread-winning professions.<br /><br />The frum world is living in Lake Wobegon, where we want to believe that every child is above average. Everyone is above average academically. Everyone is above average in terms of having their choice of career. Everyone is above average in the potential to earn wealth.<br /><br />The fact that there are opportunities to get rich does not mean that everyone CAN get rich. And acting like it's just a matter of valuing certain academic fields MORE or raising our school curricular standards to MAKE our community wealthier does everyone a disservice.Offwingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-18472603848687355932010-01-10T12:19:35.979-05:002010-01-10T12:19:35.979-05:00Miami Al - I agree with what you wrote.
Offwinger...Miami Al - I agree with what you wrote.<br /><br />Offwinger - there are many opportunities to get rich with the new rules. The frum community just doesn't want to acknowledge them and anyone looking for them is shrugged off as goyish. What are they. They are in the technology and science sectors. One must have a masters in these fields and get great paying jobs. America is still number one in these fields. Yes, they're are outsourcing, but the top scientists from all over the world are not in other countries. They are here in the US.<br /><br />What is the solution? Get schools to start teaching math and sciences. I think it is disgraceful that our six year olds can not add and our high school students have difficulty passing bio and chem regents. These tests are so dumbed down that it's ridiculous.mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-49768799340361377882010-01-10T11:10:25.737-05:002010-01-10T11:10:25.737-05:00More and more people people decided that to "...More and more people people decided that to "be Frum" you have to work inside the community. While the rest of the world has LESS domestic staff, we have MORE, we just don't have them in our homes, they are in our Shuls/Schools in make shift jobs.<br /><br />We have more adult educational opportunities than ever, but increasingly they are run by "professionals" that expect to get paid for their labor, that's fine, but this move to MORE services is squeezing the community.<br /><br />Combined with a perversion of incentives, we collapsed at the same time everyone else did, we're just deeper in the mess because the people whose livelihood depends on our mess are one of ours...<br /><br />When the building boom collapsed, a lot of illegal aliens that worked in it went back to their home countries (net illegal immigration is down). Our "surplus workers" are Frum Jews that we communally encouraged to work inside our community, they aren't going away, and we need to take care of them.<br /><br />Drastic actions to make drastic cuts could be done, but nobody wants to acknowledge them.<br /><br />We have a finite number of dollars to educate Jewish youth. The cuts everyone proposes are the "frills" that they can do without, but the rich that pay 50% or more of the school's cost for 20% of the students don't WANT to do without that. Nobody wants the poor to bear any burden, but they are the only group that can.<br /><br />Consolidation of schools, Talmud Torah (free via community) for those that can't afford day school, a Chevrolet Day School with no scholarships and affordable costs for the middle class, and a Jewish Prep School with the huge cost structure and limited achievement scholarships would do it. The Prep school parents can "do their part" by having their school resources, including teachers, run the free Talmud Torah. That would solve the "tuition crisis" tomorrow, but requires acknowledging that while every Jewish child is entitled to a Jewish education, NOT every Jewish child is entitled to a top of the line prep school education.<br /><br />Hebrew Language Charter Schools could really help with the Talmud Torah, because the state pays for Hebrew AND you can do cool stuff like make the school lunches Kosher (charters can outsource the kitchen, outsource to a kosher caterer because it's part of the culture). It's NOT a free day school, but it's 80% of a free day school for 10% of the costs, which is perfect for those that can't afford day school.<br /><br />The consolidation of schools and adoption of charters would throw a LOT of people out of work. Hopefully with our newfound wealth, we could provide tzedakah dollars for helping them retrain.<br /><br />That status quo has hidden costs, the MO Family that pays full tuition with 2 or 3 children that wants 1 or 2 more and can't afford it... but we don't see that cost. We WOULD see the cost of an Orthodox kid going to a public school with a Kippa on.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-83555411702804916722010-01-10T11:09:22.385-05:002010-01-10T11:09:22.385-05:00We don't have to "step backwards," w...We don't have to "step backwards," we have to look at economic changes. The rule of the game is "do more with less people," use more technology, more automation, etc. While income disparity has increased due to increased competition and efficiency of distribution (500 years ago, a single singer/songwriter went from town to town entertaining, 80 years ago they went to NYC for broadway or LA for the beginnings of Hollywood, or their local equivalent, now a single movie can be distributed in a 100 languages within weeks/months, this lowers the cost of entertainment, but increases the profits to whoever distributes it).<br /><br />While the high earners "earn more" than ever, they have more toys but less staff. The extremely rich may have a private jet and yacht, but they don't have a staff of people like the robber barons of the past. People here may have "cleaning help," and some have a "live in," but do the rich you know have a driver, a butler, a cook, etc? The well to do 2-3 generations ago had that. We may all have domestic services (distributed efficiently), but the well to do don't have staffs anymore.<br /><br />The frum world has decided to move against the current. We have more Shuls in an area, giving us more buildings, janitorial staff, secretarial staff, and Rabbinic staff. Our schools have more "staff." While a business today has FAR LESS support staff than it did 20 years ago, our schools have FAR MORE support staff, in terms of assistant teachers, assistant principals, etc.<br /><br />(con't)Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-37698165245372230332010-01-10T08:50:45.076-05:002010-01-10T08:50:45.076-05:00Welcome to 21st century America, where your kids d...Welcome to 21st century America, where your kids do NOT necessarily stand to have more financial wealth and resources than you do!<br /><br />Miami Al has written repeatedly here and elsewhere that people need to realize when they simply cannot afford to live in a certain place at a certain standard of living. I agree with him 100%.<br /><br />Here is the other part of the picture that so many are not acknowledging:<br /><br />We have more than our parents who had more than our grandparents who had more than our great-grandparents. And when I say more, I don't just mean money. We have a far, far higher standard of living. We have more educational opportunities, both religious & secular. We have more technological conveniences in our lives. <br /><br />The growth that has led us down this path no longer exists!!! It no longer exists outside the frum world. It no longer exists inside the frum world.<br /><br />There is simply no guarantee that your children will be able to have as much you do. Many of the young couples starting out now are already experiencing this. They can't start family life living in the same places that they grew up. They can't make the same lifestyle choices that they experienced. And if you want to have a close knit extended family, where grandparents and siblings live near one another, then you need to ALL pick a place that the *poorest* members of the family can afford. <br /><br />The problem is that no one wants to accept this. In America, it's the land of opportunity and growth! What do you mean that a community can not continue to "get rich" at the same rate as it did in the past? People think that all it takes is education and hard work and Hashem's help, and you will have a "life" career with a decent income and a pension for the future. <br /><br />Guess what? The rules have changed. The separation between the extremely wealthy and everyone else has been expanding, not contracting. Jobs and careers are more fluid. Unless you work for government, the pensions are all gone, and many of the government professions are not what they once were.<br /><br />It is not a knock on you or your parents or your children to accept that you can't make your children be as financially secure as you are or were. No amount of gifting money and paying for yeshivah tuition can do this. It just ignores the giant elephant in the room. What's going to make the Jewish community financially secure is accepting that not everyone can or will be rich, and understanding that the economics now are different (& will change yet again with each generation).<br /><br />I hear many Rabbis telling the community to be happy with what they have. I hear very few telling people to be happy with LESS than that. It's very hard, as a matter of human nature, to accept a "step backwards" in comfort. That's the reality we face. It's not a uniquely Jewish problem.Offwingernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-22957627654888629912010-01-10T05:43:34.669-05:002010-01-10T05:43:34.669-05:00it's all about the money. Those private school...it's all about the money. Those private schools are way too expansive. Beside, Orthodox families are creating their own problems with all those restrictions. Poor kids, ordinary schools would be much better for them anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-46711538503838176952010-01-10T02:37:49.460-05:002010-01-10T02:37:49.460-05:00Abbi - megapixal said "...but the earlier com...Abbi - megapixal said "...but the earlier commenter that made lavish wedding because she saved money by sending her kids to public school in my opinion has a distorted sense of priorities." <br /><br />That is not getting caught in semantics. She is distorting my point. (probably because it makes her uncomfortable)<br /><br />I once heard a rabbi saying at the shiur that every third child of a rabbi is OTD. His point was that rabbeim spend so much time being there for others that they forget their own children. But I remember that statistic.mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-6609480783820205522010-01-10T02:28:10.359-05:002010-01-10T02:28:10.359-05:00mlevin, you're getting caught up in semantics....mlevin, you're getting caught up in semantics. Take a chill. The earlier comment about lavish weddings, referred to "unaffordably expensive weddings" which clearly wasn't the case in your circumstance.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-55376897133251233512010-01-10T02:24:41.775-05:002010-01-10T02:24:41.775-05:00Anyone have any stats Re: OTD rates of Yeshivot in...Anyone have any stats Re: OTD rates of Yeshivot in general? A breakdown of MO Day School, Community Day Schools, and RW Yeshivot would be nice, but even a general one.<br /><br />This growing black bit of finances that is sucking up more and more of the communities money should be able to demonstrate success, right?<br /><br />I mean, the community is facing financial collapse, the Jewish people, envied by the gentile world for frugality (notice the recent flap from the Congressman whose letter out said that "it was said that the Jews who got rich were the ones that minded their pennies and the quarters followed"), education, and good decisions are increasingly broke, insular, financial basket cases, and otherwise a total disaster... for what purpose?<br /><br />The kids may learn the Halachot of being Jewish... but if along the way, we've forgotten how to be Jews, what's the point? They'll know the rules, but not the purpose... and maybe that's the point, tear down the Jewish community that actually was and create a new one based on textual analysis and scholarship... where nobody has a Mesorah of being Jewish, but everyone can seek this ideal.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-80776028965602705262010-01-10T01:25:37.230-05:002010-01-10T01:25:37.230-05:00Megapixel - you missed a point. My children went t...Megapixel - you missed a point. My children went to PS not because I wanted to throw a lavish wedding, but because I couldn't afford yeshivah at that time. When I was able to afford it, they went to Yeshivah. Another thing you missed or assumed that just because my children did not go to yeshivah they didn't get Jewish education. That is simply not true. I sent them to a hebrew school and supplemented on my own. <br /><br />Now that I am able to, I provided a "lavish wedding". If I wasn't able to afford it, I wouldn't be begging haknassat kallah or anyone else. Shul's backyard with challah and grape juice does the trick.<br /><br />And guess what my girls with their PS education are frum and are not going OTD. How many people could say the same after cheating and lying and stealing and sending their children to yeshivahs.mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-13143279950996977292010-01-10T01:08:32.588-05:002010-01-10T01:08:32.588-05:00We live in a small very affordable town and daven ...We live in a small very affordable town and daven at Chabad. There is a Chabad in many small affordable towns. We carpool with the rabbi's family to yeshiva. Due to the more modest cost of living here, we can pay full tuition. I don't begrudge the rabbi's family the steep tuition breaks they get. We are blessed we can pay full tuition. I'm extremely frugal. I put decorative bars on my windows so in summer I use zero air-conditioning now. My woodstove not only delights the family but drastically cuts heating bills. Average heat bill in a snowy/cold state in my modest home is $100. month. I could move to the city and pay double for my mortgage, but I have clean air, beautiful mountain views and walking trails. My children really enjoy it here and their friends feel like they are visiting a vacation retreat when they come. Gotta think outside the frum-box people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-59991482970140807172010-01-09T23:26:49.135-05:002010-01-09T23:26:49.135-05:00great post, and excellent point by miami al - that...great post, and excellent point by miami al - that we jews have become socialist. Most obviously in the Hachanasas Kallah brochures. (one of my pet peeves) Why does a poor kallah need a $3000 bedroom set when she can get one from craigslist for $700.00?<br />Why does a poor kallah need two $300.00 sets of linen? I think the people that run these programs are socialists - they are wealthy ladies who want to provide the same as they would for their own daughters. thats sweet but wrong in so many ways. <br />in any case my dad always says, I married off eight kids and never spent more than i wanted to. you cant let yourself be pressured into spending money you dont want to spend. you have to be a big girl or boy and say NO! Dont wait for rabanim to come out with takanos. <br />and yes, if we hang out with wealthier people,we start thinking we need what they have. My grandmother told me that in Europe, the rich people socialized with other rich, and poor with the poor. She - poor- would never dream of hanging out with the rich folks. They had a different set of standards that the rich people. In some ways we have come a long way- the rich kids and poor kids all go to school together and play together and even wear the same uniforms,but that has it's down side as well - my poor daughter is going to want Uggs in a couple of years and she is going to get Payless! <br />but the earlier commenter that made lavish wedding because she saved money by sending her kids to public school in my opinion has a distorted sense of priorities. Give your kids a jewish education and make a simple wedding!!megapixelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-46973501959060100472010-01-08T13:15:28.809-05:002010-01-08T13:15:28.809-05:00Great comments anonymous 12:54 and Miami Al. I...Great comments anonymous 12:54 and Miami Al. I've always thought that one of the issues with chosing to live places like BC is not only that prices are higher, but that you then are comparing your situation to that of some of the wealthiest Americans in the U.S. so you feel poorer.<br />After the basics -- food, shelter, heat, clothing, medical care, are taken care of at a basic level, everything else is relative. <br />What is it about human nature that we look at the guy who is (or appears to be) wealthier and feel cheated, rather than look at the person who is poorer and feel grateful?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-43200477915097305812010-01-08T12:54:36.803-05:002010-01-08T12:54:36.803-05:00In the 60's my brothers and sisters and I grew...In the 60's my brothers and sisters and I grew up in an economically privileged home. My father, born in America into typical poverty, had attained a college degree. My mother, also from a poor family, used to frequently tell us children, "You kids are so lucky Daddy has a college degree and a good job." My father was a bureaucrat in a federal agency. How he valued that job, as it made possible our prosperous lives. How it lifted us from the norm in our town, where we were among the most privileged. Other fathers, Eastern European immigrants, were storekeepers or had very limited employment. A chasidic rabbi had no visible income but 10 children. (When my mother bought me a new dress when I was 7, she bought an identical dress for the 7 year old girl in this chasidic family. We enjoyed our matching dresses!) My mother would tell us how wonderful it was that my father had a college degree. That we had a car, a 1953 Chevy, which we used throughout the 1960's. <br /><br />My great unfulfilled want was a popsicle of my very own. My mother would buy one popsicle for me and my sister, then cut it in half carefully, and each of us would get one stick. I longed for a double popsicle to myself! That was one of my mother's economies. But as she told us, we were lucky children. <br /><br />By now you might realize that we were not prosperous at all, but we believed we were, because our frame of reference was European immigrant families where there was no college degree and no government job. And often little income.<br /><br />I learned when I was older that we were well off because my mother was exceedingly grateful for what my father provided. We were well off because we were rather deluded, because we had a limited perspective. If we had known how strained our family finances were, we would have been unhappy and stressed.<br /><br />I asked my father recently, "How did you manage to support five children and pay tuition?" He answered grimly, "By the skin of my teeth!"<br /><br />And here I always thought we were one of the richest families in town. My parents never ever said a word against poor families who were receiving tuition breaks. We felt this was the Jewish way. Tzedakah was a must, a penny a day in the pushka.<br /><br />My parents always wanted to move to Brooklyn where their family was. This was impossible because we couldn't afford housing there, even if my father could get a job in New York. So we lived in small town USA, where houses were cheap and life was affordable, at least for well to do families like ours!<br /><br />Why am I telling you this? Because I feel you are all very dissatisfied because you are comparing yourselves to the wrong people. You live with a sense of undeserved want in the midst of a wealthy enclave. You would not dream of living in a small town. You have great demands, great needs, and you feel deprived. Sorry to leave you on a negative note, but I do not feel you have the least sense of gratitude for your truly privileged lives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-8664073061377167122010-01-08T12:13:28.473-05:002010-01-08T12:13:28.473-05:00Tesyaa, Dave, Mlevin,
ALL very true... that'...Tesyaa, Dave, Mlevin,<br /><br />ALL very true... that's what I mean about the Apples-Apples issue.<br /><br />My co-workers and business partners AREN'T going to the ghetto super market and buying cheap cuts about to be thrown away to throw in a stew likes its Eastern Europe in a famine...<br /><br />They are at Whole Foods spending the same or more per-pound that I do.<br /><br />There are CERTAINLY income brackets where Frum is prohibitively expensive, but that's mostly because the Orthodox world has only recently gotten big enough (population wise) that it should have communities in all income ranges.<br /><br />The Latino families have a quinciero (sp?), Catholics celebrate Baptism, Christening, and other milestones. We all have milestones.<br /><br />For historical reasons, Jewish milestones and Catholic milestones are most similar, and the Italian Catholics are probably the most "Orthodox" of them in terms of having similar events to us.<br /><br />But, the real thing is that you HAVE to live in a neighborhood that is around your income range. If you "reach" for a more expensive neighborhood (VERY common in the secular world, because they get a better school system), you are GOING to feel poor because you have less than your neighbors. However, that's a choice you make.<br /><br />The guys whining about Bergen County that make $150k and can't live there... well, they should move. I can't live on Star Island, Fischer Island, or any of the playgrounds of the rich and famous, not because they don't sell property to Jews, but because I can't afford it. I have to live in a neighborhood filled with people around in my income range or I can't afford life... I need to make similar schooling choices to those in my income range...<br /><br />There are some HUGE structural problems in the religious world, I'm NOT a defender of the status quo. However, the family making $150k that thinks that if they weren't Frum they'd have the cost structure of a family making $50k and spend $100k on vacations is OUT OF THEIR MIND.<br /><br />It isn't the "housing is more expensive in Frum areas," it's that "housing is crappier in Frum areas..." If you bought a $500k house in a Frum neighborhood, you'd have probably otherwise bought a $500k house in another neighborhood. We can fool ourselves and say "I could get this house for $350k in another neighborhood," but you wouldn't, you'd have spent $500k and gotten a nicer house.<br /><br />Some things are nicer being Frum (Shabbat, close knit community, etc.) some things are less nice, but let's not pretend that the struggling middle class would otherwise be kicking ass elsewhere, you'd just be struggling in a neighborhood with nicer housing.<br /><br />Re: my blogging: not going to happen. I waste enough time commenting on this one without having my own soap box.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-48886023333611900072010-01-08T12:00:51.675-05:002010-01-08T12:00:51.675-05:00Miami Al, If you don't open your own blog and ...Miami Al, If you don't open your own blog and regularly post your insights, I'm going to fly down to Miami and make you.<br /><br />Or just say please. Please?A fannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-21726606777185050522010-01-08T11:19:22.951-05:002010-01-08T11:19:22.951-05:00There are so many areas that the frum community ha...There are so many areas that the frum community has adopted a "necessity" mindset to something that is a luxury, I find it baffling to know where to begin. I also recognize that a decent amount of these consumption-oriented habits are merely an adaptation of what is happening in America more generally.<br /><br />Here are some examples of things that are perceived as needs, but are wants/conveniences:<br /><br />(1) Presumed dual-car ownership vs. use of public transit and/or making due with one car per family. A car for every adult driver in the house? Are you sure it is really necessary for your household? Could you take the bus? Have home delivery? Car-pool with a neighbor for errands? Use a taxi or car service when it is really needed? Unless you have two adults who each must commute by car to work, then you likely are paying for car insurance, gas, maintenance (not to mention the cost of the car) as a convenience.<br /><br />Yes, I realize that certain frum areas are car-necessary suburbs - guess what? Living there is an expensive choice if it means you must have two cars! American development from 1950-2000 revolved around the car and a car-centric culture of living, and we're paying the price by adopting this in the frum world. Yet since so many frum people live in more concentrated urban clusters (even our suburbs tend to be connected to major metro areas), this is a financial cost we just presume, without considering carefully.<br /><br />(2) Perfect climate control/central air & heating: Too much A/C & too often the minute it gets hot, thermostat too high when it's cold. Whatever happened to using a fan, opening windows or the reverse, having good insulation & putting on another layer. Also, when choosing between homes, more sq. footage is viewed as an essential +, rather than an additional drain on heating or cooling costs.<br /><br />(3) Paying for cable/satellite TV AND internet (non-charedi): Yes, the internet is necessary for many of us to work. It's a common convenience we expect. So is television (and it's true that many people can not receive 'free' t.v. anymore where they live). Guess what? You can use old computers and your internet connection to watch many television shows, find quality programming for children, etc. You can borrow DVDs and media from the library. TV was never a need, but at this point, there is no *need* for regular cable/satellite tv even as a basic convenience!<br /><br />There is nothing wrong with having multiple cars or central air/heat or cable tv if you can afford it. But a whole generation of young people have grown up with these luxuries, thinking that they are necessities, and they can't even fathom doing without, even as they remain mired in debt.Offwingernoreply@blogger.com