tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post5675984397881504988..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Orthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-68095622924560316582007-07-28T16:22:00.000-04:002007-07-28T16:22:00.000-04:00Miriam--I know this discussion ended a while ago, ...Miriam--<BR/>I know this discussion ended a while ago, but I wanted to tell you about a conversation I had recently with my mom and aunt. They were from a family a lot like yours, they are 7 kids and they were all born very close together (my grandmother always used herself as proof that breastfeeding doesn't always have a contraceptive effect). They both said they absolutely loved being from a large family, and the only reason they didn't have lots of kids themselves was a mix of age (they had their first at ages 30 and 39 respectively) and simply not wanting to deal with all the work that comes with it. But they were very, very enthusiastic, and gave me a thumbs up on having as many kids as I want (9 or 10 was thrown out as a possible #). <BR/><BR/>So basically, if you start getting criticism (from others or from yourself) telling you you have so many kids, they can't all be getting enough attention, etc, it might be a good idea to talk to grown children from large families. Because most of them reject that kind of thinking, and say they had very happy childhoods (I also have friends from big families who say they love being one of 13/15). For me, knowing that children in large families enjoy their life/family and don't feel a lack of attention (the ones I've talked to don't, anyway) makes me feel much better about my hopes to have many children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-9300336455655887452007-06-12T10:01:00.000-04:002007-06-12T10:01:00.000-04:00raggedymom -- my littles are "big helpers" too -- ...raggedymom -- my littles are "big helpers" too -- but yes, they get a bit less enthusiastic as they get older. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I've gotten more organized and better at juggling due to sheer necessity. I can handle 4 with ease... it's only half the kids!<BR/><BR/>I do count on the older girls to put away their own laundry, although I'll fold it and separate it from the main laundry for them. (That is, I give them a laundry basket of folded "girl" clothes that is for everyone who has a drawer in that room.) And my oldest can throw in a load for me, and he'll bring things down and up and sort dirty laundry. He prefers not to sort the clean laundry, and will only put away his own clothes, but we can divvy up the jobs to make that work easily enough.<BR/><BR/>As long as I don't have to neglect the others to insure that illusive "one-on-one time" I can manage to give each of them both chores and attention throughout the day, so thanks to those who expressed the opinion that family time or small groups getting focused on can be just as good. You've made me feel a lot better.<BR/><BR/>(oh, and trilcat, I know oxytocin and prolactin are both breastfeeding hormones -- prolactin for milk production and oxytocin for letdown, but I hadn't really paid attention to which had the "contraceptive effect," so I'll accept the correction.:-))miriamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14339767447913960853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-34185978548584210562007-06-12T00:52:00.000-04:002007-06-12T00:52:00.000-04:00TC, you are right about the six hours, but most wo...TC, you are right about the six hours, but most women don't need to be that strict. (I didn't.) On the other extreme I have a friend with a 2yo who wants to return to fertility. She left her toddler for Shabbat but it didn't make a difference. She works a few days a week too.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-78175384613412722422007-06-11T21:24:00.000-04:002007-06-11T21:24:00.000-04:00Kudos, SL for getting a really enthusiastic conver...Kudos, SL for getting a really enthusiastic conversation going! <BR/><BR/>Miriam - I can only begin to imagine how exasperating the time crunch must be. My two (nearly 4 and one-and-a-half) love to help out for now. But I'm sure it's a lot easier to convince kids this age that there's not much more thrilling than loading the dryer or dusting the furniture that's too low for me to reach, than it will be when they're at the ages of your "big kids" - with more of their own interests and school obligations.<BR/><BR/>Lots of luck to us all!RaggedyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01022064984702182705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-17927056755264630292007-06-11T18:46:00.000-04:002007-06-11T18:46:00.000-04:00sorrysorryLooking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-73307778434320643442007-06-11T17:59:00.000-04:002007-06-11T17:59:00.000-04:00I think it's a Seinfeldism... there was an episode...I think it's a Seinfeldism... there was an episode where someone was referred to as a "soup nazi" for not letting them have soup...<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I've seen women who are a little overenthusiastic about breastfeeding, who have basically told moms that using formula is about the same as poisoning the kids... <BR/><BR/>Sure breastfeeding is best by FAR (and I fully intend to breastfeed mine) but I know many many people who were bottle-fed and grew up to be healthy, intelligent adults.<BR/><BR/>In fact, of the 5 of us, I'm the only one who was breastfed. I'm the only one who has any chronic medical conditions (hypothyroidism and fibromyalgia). I am the only one with attention issues. I'm the only one who had colic, and I'm the only one who needed psychiatric treatment.<BR/><BR/>Just proves that breast vs bottle is only one factor in a bunch. Sure it's another push in the right direction, but it's not a guarantee. <BR/><BR/>And research I came up with today says that a single six hour period in which a woman doesn't nurse is enough to allow ovulation. <BR/><BR/>Are you going to wake up in the middle of the night when your baby is sleeping peacefully and wake him/her up to nurse? or express when you can finally have a good night's sleep?<BR/><BR/>Even if you religiously nurse at least every 3 hours, though, you don't get a guarantee that you won't ovulate. It varies radically from woman to woman. Just because your mom/sister/neighbor/college roommate is infertile while nursing doesn't mean that you will be, even if you follow the identical schedule.<BR/><BR/>I think we're losing track of the original discussion though...Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-64728041778101276962007-06-11T17:01:00.000-04:002007-06-11T17:01:00.000-04:00yes ma'ams (how do you plural ma'am?)yes ma'ams (how do you plural ma'am?)Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-846493775327345412007-06-11T16:47:00.000-04:002007-06-11T16:47:00.000-04:00Agree with Mom in Israel. Let's use the term Nazi...Agree with Mom in Israel. Let's use the term Nazi just to refer to actual Nazis or their ilk (Pres of Iran, etc).Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-2092198083459896462007-06-11T14:31:00.000-04:002007-06-11T14:31:00.000-04:00Thanks, HNC. I now see your point.But surely the w...Thanks, HNC. I now see your point.<BR/><BR/>But surely the woman could have been comforted without comparing opinionated and verbally abusive women, who ultimately want the best for every baby even if they lack communication skills and their methods are obnoxious and counterproductive, than comparing them to a political party that systematically murdered millions of people.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-21240384383104600222007-06-11T12:18:00.000-04:002007-06-11T12:18:00.000-04:00oh, and methinks that for people who say that bott...oh, and methinks that for people who say that bottle feeding amounts to childabuse for which a mother should be put in jail, then yes, that amounts to justification from my end. such women can be very, very abusive when it comes to convincing people to nurse, and litterly put one woman in a class I was in to tears. the phrase was coined to comfort her.Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-42234085239841643712007-06-11T12:15:00.000-04:002007-06-11T12:15:00.000-04:00and in terms of using birth control I think it is ...and in terms of using birth control I think it is very important to figure out how many babies one would want, how many one would be happy with, and use that plus estimates of how long one will be firtile before deciding how much to space the babies, that way you can make very certain to get your minimum within the required time, and only after that trying to get what you want. (and certainly in the earlier times, unless one is having kids every single year or something personaly intollerable, then I think one should avoid it untill one has at least some minimum number of children)Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-8458383520918290972007-06-11T12:13:00.000-04:002007-06-11T12:13:00.000-04:00MII, when I mean frequent I do not mean every othe...MII, when I mean frequent I do not mean every other hour or some such thing. I mean carrying the baby around with you in a sling that allowed the baby to nurse when ever it wanted to, which might be as much as every thirty minutes in the day time and every hour at night, although since the mother and baby slept together mommy barely had to wake up.<BR/><BR/>At such frequency the birthcontrol effects are nearly perfect for almost everyone, which is part of why women rarely had their babies but every 3 or 4 years in older times, only rich women who could pay for a wet nurse could have them more often, this is also part of the reason family size was so small, the other being the ridiculously high childhood mortality rates.<BR/><BR/>These things didn't change untill we became more prosperous and medicine became better, in the last hundred and fifty years about.<BR/><BR/>so in this sense yes you probably are modern, and I should think that you would be proud of it, its no slight to you, no modern woman would put up with such conditions (or almost none).Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-50185979284904093042007-06-11T05:25:00.000-04:002007-06-11T05:25:00.000-04:00TriLcat--I think it's important to not be too quic...TriLcat--<BR/>I think it's important to not be too quick to tell people to use birth control. There's a big difference between a mom worrying that maybe she's not doing enough, or a mom who's sometimes frazzled and overwhelmed, and a mom who is constantly unhappy and stressed or a mom whose kids are truly not getting the emotional support they need. <BR/><BR/>I can see why sometimes people don't want birth control. For one thing, Hashem is in control of these things, and some people feel that He will only give us exactly what we can handle, even if it feels overwhelming, and therefore we shouldn't intervene. Others believe that birth control can be a part of Hashem's plan. It really depends on personal outlook.<BR/><BR/>For me, I always get a bit worried when I think of using birth control because of the families I know who had 1,2,3, or even 4 kids very easily and then had lots of problems trying to get pregnant again. I know two woman who had 4 kids in 6 years, one still only has four a few years later despite no birth control, and another ended up with six. If they had used birth control in the first six years they might have ended up with 2 or 3 kids, and they would probably always have a regret about it. And I know a woman who used birth control and now really regrets it b/c she stopped being fertile earlier than she thought she would and isn't at the family size she wanted. I don't know what the point of all this is, I guess just to point out that there are "horror stories" on both sides, both of truly overwhelmed and unhappy moms who should have been on birth control and moms who wish they hadn't used it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-91577987429842997852007-06-11T04:55:00.000-04:002007-06-11T04:55:00.000-04:00Breastfeeding really affects fertility differently...Breastfeeding really affects fertility differently for different women. I know women who are naturally infertile as long as they nurse, even when it's nursing a 1.5 year old 1/2X a day. I also know women who are able to get pg again at 6 months, and some who got pregnant at 2 months post partum with FULL breastfeeding. In short, if you see a woman with a lot of kids who are clearly close in age, don't make assumptions.<BR/><BR/>Miriam--I agree with what others have said about one-on-one time being less important. My parents are both from closely spaced families (not quite as big as yours, but close) and their parents didn't really worry about one-on-one time at all, it was a different era I guess. They still feel fine and have no resentment about the situation, in fact their fond memories of growing up with so many siblings to play with and talk to are a large part of what made me want a big family some day.<BR/><BR/>One-on-one time for each kid at least once a week for say, 30-45 minutes could be good to let them talk about anything that might be bothering them, and just to give extra attention. Maybe if you stagger bedtimes, and then distract the others with a fun activity. For example put the four younger ones in bed at 7:30 and then set three of the others up with a board game?<BR/><BR/>Also, while you said a babysitter isn't in the budget, what about a mother's helper? As in, a younger teenager who only works when you're around. It usually costs about half the price of a babysitter. So maybe once or twice a week you could have a 12-14 year old come over and just play with the little kids in another room while you get a couple of hours focusing on the bigger kids. Or get a volunteer, if your town offers that.<BR/><BR/>If your baby is very young, I don't think one-on-one time would have to be without the baby. Your attention can still be focused on an older child while you nurse or while the baby plays quietly with something shiny.<BR/><BR/>My husband is 7 years older than his youngest brother, and he changed diapers (and loves to remind his brother of that sometimes :) ). <BR/><BR/>By the way, take all of my advice with a grain of salt. While my parents, husband, and many friends are from/have families with many children, I only had one sibling and right now I only have one baby. Maybe an online forum for families with lots of kids could help as well? I bet other moms have had similar issues.<BR/><BR/>Finally, it sounds like you're at the toughest point right now. With future kids, your oldest kids will already be approaching teen years/ be teenagers. Which means they'll have a whole new slew of issues, but also means they'll be able to do a lot more for themselves and a lot more to help you out. And of course always remember that Hashem blessed you and your husband with these particular kids because your house is the best place for them to grow. Every mom feels like they're doing it wrong sometimes, I have 1 and I feel like I'm not doing enough sometimes, so it's good to keep in mind that Hashem thinks you are exactly what your kids need and Hashem knows these things.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-24560021813995841902007-06-11T01:23:00.000-04:002007-06-11T01:23:00.000-04:00HNC, "breastfeeding nazi" is an extremely offensiv...HNC, "breastfeeding nazi" is an extremely offensive term, and I am surprised to see a Jew using it so flippantly.<BR/><BR/>For the record, I don't disagree with you that nursing around the clock is important (although some women won't conceive until they wean completely because of hormones that prevent implantation). I just question your generalizations about modern women. I have been one for a long time.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-40201354796378688102007-06-10T21:08:00.000-04:002007-06-10T21:08:00.000-04:00As we have absolutely no hired help, I have my kid...As we have absolutely no hired help, I have my kids pictch in with the cleaning. My son is great at organizing this on Fridays. My youngest, I admit, doesn't do much, but she will sometimes willingly peel vegetables. And the older kids are supposed to put away their own laundry. My son folds better than I do anyway. ;-) I think it is very good for children to have to carry some of the household weight. I see the messes some girls leave behind in a local school, and that is certainly the result of always having a maid around to clean up after them.Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-17403776351561945792007-06-10T17:43:00.001-04:002007-06-10T17:43:00.001-04:00My 4 year old helps out a lot around the house. W...My 4 year old helps out a lot around the house. When possible, we make it fun, but in any case he has a lot of regular responsibilites that are age-appropriate and will continue to get more as he gets older. My mom always underestimated what chores we could do so I was not asked to do much growing up, but I've learned that my son can do a lot - and wants to! We spend time together talking while folding laundry, putting away toys...he's even been able to help wash dishes since he was 3, though it's been ages since I've asked him to do so. <BR/><BR/>Depending on where you live, there may be activities for kids at the library, parks, etc. in our town, there are TONS of story times, craft days, nature activities, etc. I get the calendars every month and mark up our calendar with opportunities to do these activities together. Then, I make sure that we do at least a few of them. Right now I mostly just take my son, but as my 1 1/2 year old is more able to enjoy these things I will bring both of them, or sometimes just her.<BR/><BR/>And I definitely agree with one comment above about getting help. After I had the baby, I had people come over just to play with my son and it made a big difference. Obviously it depends where you live but our local Bais Yaakov girls are required to volunteer for chesed and a lot of their hours are from helping moms.Estherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09546504942311091442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-31992327585619697172007-06-10T17:43:00.000-04:002007-06-10T17:43:00.000-04:00Miriam-I'd proceed with caution if you are taking ...Miriam-I'd proceed with caution if you are taking in a HS boarder. Talk to those who have done so before jumping. I'm a skeptic. <BR/><BR/>Getting kids to pitch in doing chores for short periods of times is great. My mother used to make it "fun" by making it into a race. Everyone was assigned a smaller task and we raced the record player a few times. This works well for competitive people. Washing cars/vans can be fun since kids like water. Of course, with four younger ones it would be difficult to coordinate. <BR/><BR/>Maybe you can experiment and write a guest post. I'm sure those with kids spaced closely together would love to learn and exchange ideas.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-87592233811959344382007-06-10T17:28:00.000-04:002007-06-10T17:28:00.000-04:00For once and for all, let me lay out the facts, as...For once and for all, let me lay out the facts, as every single breastfeeding expert I've ever heard from on the subject has laid out for me, as well as my mother and various other pediatiricians have done so (my mother was also a breast feeding nazi back in the push in the 70s responsible for eleminating formula as option number one.)<BR/><BR/>Breast frequency of breastfeeding per day, directly negatively corolates with fertility. this means that the more frequently one breastfeeds, and the more exclusively one breastfeeds the less chance on has of getting pregnant, and the longer it will be before the next child. For some women the response is acute, for others it takes a much greater frequency to be effective. For some it is never effective, although this is a substantial minority.<BR/><BR/>However, such breastfeeding must be round the clock, and the primary food source, and frequency again is the key.<BR/><BR/>and that is all i'm going to say.Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-88925315864421551042007-06-10T16:40:00.000-04:002007-06-10T16:40:00.000-04:00Not to be a nudnik, but oxytocin is the hormone th...Not to be a nudnik, but oxytocin is the hormone that brings on contractions. The one that comes out when you're nursing is prolactin. (I know this because I had a prolactin problem that prevented me from getting pregnant when I first got married. Super-kudos to the endocrinologist who picked it up even though I had no milk or any other signs of high prolactin levels.)<BR/><BR/>Lactation is just not birth control. Some women don't ovulate when they're breastfeeding, but many do. <BR/><BR/>It's like a joke I heard back in my public school days:<BR/>"What do you call people who use the withdrawal method of birth control?"<BR/>"Parents"<BR/><BR/>If you feel that you really can deal with more kids, Miriam, that's great. More power to you! If you feel that you can't, it's time to talk to a rav or a yoetzet (see www.yoatzot.org )and discuss your options for birth control.<BR/><BR/>Having twelve children is a real bracha if you can do it well, and a real curse if you end up a schmatta. And an even bigger curse if your kids end up as schmattas too. <BR/><BR/>Regarding kids helping, I remember my mom stopped bringing our laundry to our rooms around first grade, she stopped folding our laundry around 3rd grade (though sometimes she did it as a treat). <BR/><BR/>We started setting the table and helping clear at age 4-5, doing dishes at age 6-7 (she'd put a stepstool in front of the sink for us), and cooking simple things by age 9-10. <BR/><BR/>Also, we took the trash out, made sure there was toilet paper in the bathrooms, picked up our own toys, and other little chores as needed from a super young age. <BR/><BR/>My mom made sure that we spent no more than 25-35 minutes a day doing chores, because she wanted us to be kids too. (though sometimes doing dishes took longer because we ended up playing with the soap bubbles)<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure that having big kids change younger kids' diapers (especially if the kids are the opposite sex) is so appropriate, but you'll need to think it over for yourself. You can certainly ask your children to bring you the diaper/wipes/plastic bag and then take the dirty to the trash for you. My sister's 2-year-old can already do that.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-80699192630923303212007-06-10T16:23:00.000-04:002007-06-10T16:23:00.000-04:00Ariella, your doctor is right in that one shouldn'...Ariella, your doctor is right in that one shouldn't rely on breastfeeding alone if it's critical not to get pregnant. However, if a mother educates herself it is possible to know when it's likely to stop being effective. And if she's not intending to use artificial birth control (and there are many reasons for this besides halacha) breastfeeding is a pretty good way to space children. <BR/><BR/>Fifteen months is considered spacing in some communities and is certainly better than a year, which is what will happen with no breastfeeding or birth control (and it can happen, rarely, while exclusively breastfeeding also).mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-81092011547480790592007-06-10T16:18:00.000-04:002007-06-10T16:18:00.000-04:00HNC:Making it work absolutely requires rediculousl...HNC:<BR/><I>Making it work absolutely requires rediculously frequent nursing so much so that no modern woman would tollerate it, however, it will work.</I><BR/><BR/>I guess I am not a modern woman. I am a reactionary slave to my husband and children (was infertile for two years after my last due solely to breastfeeding). <BR/><BR/>And please, whatever you do *don't* ask your pediatrician about breastfeeding and fertility. S/he has only a slightly greater chance of knowing about this stuff as the cashier in the grocery store.<BR/><BR/>I also agree with SL's comment about one-on-one time being overrated.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-20734688519691324982007-06-10T15:25:00.000-04:002007-06-10T15:25:00.000-04:00halfnutcase, Miriam is nursing two! (my infant an...halfnutcase, Miriam is nursing <B>two!</B> (my infant and my 20mo old.) And it's not the first time I've tandom-nursed: Three of my kids did not wean until between 2 1/2 and 3 years of age. None of them had bottles. (Okay, the first two had bottles, but not until after I was pregnant again.) We didn't start solids until 6 mo, and then only 1 meal a day at first, immediately followed or preceded by nursing. BUT, my kids tend to sleep through the night at a relatively early age, and a bunch of them were thumb-suckers. I guess I just have a high tolerance for oxitocin. (The breastfeeding-produced hormone).<BR/><BR/>Oh, and the phrase is "blessed with," please, not "stuck with."<BR/><BR/>I'm also sure that whatever juggling is necessary to deal with 9 kids is the same as for 8, so I really don't think limiting our family size at this point is going to make one whit of difference. Tuition is already too expensive, food costs don't go up so much if you're not eating out, etc., and that wasn't supposed to be what the discussion was about anyway.<BR/><BR/>The high school boarder idea is interesting, but we're on the outskirts of the community, and I think the 1.8 mi to the school puts us pretty low on the list. And if I have to provide transportation to evening school events and study-dates, I have to pack all the other kids into the van to do it, and then it's harder, not easier.<BR/><BR/>SephardiLady, I like your point about one-on-one time possibly not being as important as family time in general. Family time is far easier to do! I think I'll be spending the summer teaching my older kids how to be helpful. I haven't been able to convince them to change diapers yet, but my two oldest (8.5 and 10) made the Shabbos chicken this week, (under my supervision as I did something else in the kitchen), and that has definite possibilities.miriamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14339767447913960853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-33244250304065159382007-06-10T12:53:00.000-04:002007-06-10T12:53:00.000-04:00depends on the way you nurse and frequency of nurs...depends on the way you nurse and frequency of nursing. Also it just doesn't work for some women.<BR/><BR/>Making it work absolutely requires rediculously frequent nursing so much so that no modern woman would tollerate it, however, it will work.<BR/><BR/>just ask a pediatrician about it, while it isn't fail safe, you will notice segnificantly less women end up with mirams problems when they nurse than when they bottle feed. (and mind you nurse does not mean pumping milk)Looking Forwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876831969877780546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-49250223132017040162007-06-10T11:17:00.000-04:002007-06-10T11:17:00.000-04:00On family size and attention. I know a mother of ...On family size and attention. I know a mother of only one who put off getting pregnant again until the child was 4. This mother is a stay-at-home, so you would think she puts a lot into her child. But that is not the case. She is bored at home and bored in the company of the child. The kid was enrolled in school and camp from the age of 2. While she does sometimes take the child out to the park, she usually tries to get someone else along. She really does not seem to know how to interact with the kid other than either taking the child along on her errands or just riding the train to a store to buy yet another toy that is not needed. Aklong the way, the kid will be plied with "treats" and so does not eat proper meals. At home, the kid is likely to be plonked in front of a DVD, so Shabbos is a really difficult time for this mother. <BR/><BR/>I was generally not home full time, and had my first 2 less than a year and half apart and then the third just 21/2 years after the second, but I always read to my children or took them for walks or to the park. They did often have to come along on errands with me, but I did not allow them to go into sugar overload and spoil their meals by buying them cookies and doughnuts to keep them quiet. I admit to buying cheese slices for them to munch on, but that is something I wanted them to eat.<BR/><BR/>and the mother is not devoting all her stay-at-home time to keeping house. she has cleaning help twice a week (sometimes even 3x) and ususally obtains supper from takeout. <BR/><BR/>So it's more a matter of a person's priorities and personality than the number of chidren, though some people do realize their limits at some point. I knew someone with 8 chidren who indicated that was her stopping point, and I know someone who is more than overwhelmed by her 7. But if one has not yet been yotzeh pirya verivya due to all being of one gender, it may be difficult to allow ceasing from further procreation.<BR/><BR/>I would have to second Trilcat's point on BF not to be relied upon as BC. After I had a C-section, I was advised not to conceive for a year. The doctors didn't say just nurse exclusively and don't worry about it.Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.com