tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post7776735798160010148..comments2024-02-21T05:24:49.494-05:00Comments on Orthonomics: 42 and Never Employed, Now What?Orthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-29886155611579820092011-02-23T22:15:15.357-05:002011-02-23T22:15:15.357-05:00My 32 year old nephew's wife has asked me to w...My 32 year old nephew's wife has asked me to write his resume. He has absolutely no qualifications for his chosen field, chinuch. Most all all, he lacks he key qualification, he is not the son or son in law of a rosh yeshiva or principal of a yeshiva day school.<br /><br />What am I to say to her? She has no idea that qualifications are needed, so she has no concept that he has none, that learning in kollel for 10 years qualiies you to learn in kollel for another ten years and then to collect for the weddings of your children.<br /><br />What should I say that would be kind? His resume would take up aout as much paper as the "while you were out slips" that used to be a fixture in offices.<br /><br />I am looking for some kind words or something like: Oy vey, I have to move to Oshkosh, there's a terrible family crisis, I'll get back to you as soon as the crisis is over. Or if emes is an issue, I could tell her her husband has never worked in a camp, has never taught substitute in school, has never spent summers doing anything chinuch-related, in fact, has done nothing that is job related, particularly nothing that is chinuch related.<br /><br />What kind of resume am I supposed of write for a mature man with absolutely no qualifications?Eileenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09603529320564604203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-55493279149912549962011-02-16T22:23:05.365-05:002011-02-16T22:23:05.365-05:00"The idea of studying at a Kollel is in my op..."The idea of studying at a Kollel is in my opnion very much like being a graduate student in something like philosophy."<br /><br />More likely a perennial high school student. A perennial high school student is usually not self supporting, and often has no plan for the future other than continuing in his present circumstance;which he thinks can go on and on and on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-2951675634844053902011-02-15T17:41:07.502-05:002011-02-15T17:41:07.502-05:00MO Get "plenty" of government money.
Th...MO Get "plenty" of government money.<br /><br />The biggest "tax break" in the tax code for individuals is the mortgage tax break...<br /><br />The Obama administration caught hell for trying to limit the deduction for mortgage interest and charitable giving to 28%, so people at the 32%/35% tax break wouldn't get the full deduction. That failed.<br /><br />Modern Orthodox Jews are often in those brackets, live in over priced homes, and give 10% of their income to charity. So those are two large tax breaks that are "for the rich" tax breaks that favor rich people with over priced homes and high amounts of charity... that's Modern Orthodox Jews. (While both deductions are available to all, for various accounting reasons, those deductions are HEAVILY tilted toward top earners, the 2% of top earners claim like 32% of those deductions).<br /><br />Modern Orthodox Jews predominately attend University, often through graduate schools, schooling at that level is HEAVILY federally subsidized, directly and indirectly.<br /><br />The problems affecting Modern Orthodox Jews is not supporting children in Kollel, it's a general upper middle class squeeze in this recession and an inability to cut costs. Their gentile counterparts could switch back from Whole Foods to a grocery store, MO Jews didn't have cheaper meat suppliers. The schooling bill kept growing.<br /><br />We're not entitled to "living beyond our means" subsidies.<br /><br />Moderate income families with children in private schools generally suffer in the housing department, have smaller families, and frequent religious schools that cap payments instead of escalating with each child.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1488201322268808902011-02-15T17:00:58.889-05:002011-02-15T17:00:58.889-05:00once again we are citizens too
Yes. We are citiz...<i>once again we are citizens too</i><br /><br />Yes. We are citizens too. We have a right to anything citizens of any other religion get, including public schooling. Catholics who want a Catholic education pay for Catholic school. Presbyterians who want a Presbyterian education pay for Presbyterian school (if it exists). And so on. We're entitled to what other citizens are entitled to.tesyaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-51845126806570745792011-02-15T16:17:10.521-05:002011-02-15T16:17:10.521-05:00A lot of families feel a sense of shame when apply...A lot of families feel a sense of shame when applying for assistance and/or do not know how to maximize their benefits. It's also not necessarily that one has absolutely no money but figuring out of you qualify for assistance that might make your life a little easier that you happen to qualify for or that can be advocated for you by community leaders. I also personaly do not think that the states are all that straped it actually depends more on what the govenment chooses to spend money on. once again we are citizens too and perhaps we need to be more assertive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1720461000003846672011-02-15T15:03:24.574-05:002011-02-15T15:03:24.574-05:00but I see nothing wrong with the MO community appe...<i>but I see nothing wrong with the MO community appealing for more govenment assistance.</i><br /><br />What's wrong with this? Most of the MO community is relatively wealthy in comparison to the majority of Americans. Sure, private school expenses mean that some families are strapped. That doesn't mean that government assistance is warranted. And as has been pointed out before, the states are basically broke. Services are being cut, not added to.<br /><br />If a family is poor enough to qualify for government benefits, it doesn't matter whether they are Modern Orthodox, chassidic, Buddhist or Martian, right?tesyaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-50179994316985728842011-02-15T12:41:37.988-05:002011-02-15T12:41:37.988-05:00I guess it's a matter of values, but I see not...I guess it's a matter of values, but I see nothing wrong with the MO community appealing for more govenment assistance. Many non-Jewish groups already do this. Also, it might be intesting to be creative and do reseach with regard to insurance or investment product that a parent could invest in to support the son or grandson's kollel studies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-34664355378240339662011-02-15T12:41:11.193-05:002011-02-15T12:41:11.193-05:00I guess it's a matter of values, but I see not...I guess it's a matter of values, but I see nothing wrong with the MO community appealing for more govenment assistance. Many non-Jewish groups already do this. Also, it might be intesting to be creative and do reseach with regard to insurance or investment product that a parent could invest in to support the son or grandson's kollel studies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-74032848571074540942011-02-15T09:56:18.454-05:002011-02-15T09:56:18.454-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-10850364709696068462011-02-15T09:35:20.043-05:002011-02-15T09:35:20.043-05:00Right, because it was a Democratic President who w...Right, because it was a Democratic President who was lobbied into making Chassidic Jews eligible for special government programs as a "historically disadvantaged minority" (hint: it was Reagan).<br /><br />And because Kiryas Joel has been so poor at getting government funding or programs for its residents.<br /><br />Yeah, Orthodox Jews are terrible at taking advantage of government programs.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-8669333758796859962011-02-15T07:04:56.656-05:002011-02-15T07:04:56.656-05:00Also, it might be helpful to learn about trusts th...Also, it might be helpful to learn about trusts that a parent or grandparent could set up to support Torah learning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-27233576027833771712011-02-15T06:41:37.505-05:002011-02-15T06:41:37.505-05:00How about advice about how to qualify for more gov...How about advice about how to qualify for more government benefits? In my opinion, we are often too reluctant to take advantage of services that we are entittled to a citizens of this country. This would also take some of the stress off our own community's finances. Other groups do this, but I believe they are more often more affiliated with the Demoncratic Party than we are. This is a serious post and no I am not a troll!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-80523674345835176362011-02-15T00:02:41.539-05:002011-02-15T00:02:41.539-05:00How about saving all this advice to people who des...How about saving all this advice to people who deserve it? I am talking about post child rearing women trying to get into the work place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-87290921620757277062011-02-14T21:22:05.035-05:002011-02-14T21:22:05.035-05:00Anonymous,
There are online courses offered at no...Anonymous,<br /><br />There are online courses offered at normal universities. I was thinking more of schools in the NY/NJ area where you could take some of the coursework online (or part time, or at night, or whatever), I wasn't thinking of the virtual school options.<br /><br />I'm not advocating this, just suggesting that he does need a post-Kollel plan, even if it isn't a huge rush.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-21194318865850403682011-02-14T21:08:33.385-05:002011-02-14T21:08:33.385-05:00Miami Al: You can't get a law degree through ...Miami Al: You can't get a law degree through an on-line course, at least not one that will qualify you to sit for the bar exam. Most undergrad on-line degrees also are not particularly well-respected in the job market, but its probably better than nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-18420133403198321592011-02-14T10:40:01.718-05:002011-02-14T10:40:01.718-05:00Unique Kollel Guy:
Agreed, I think it is terrific...Unique Kollel Guy:<br /><br />Agreed, I think it is terrific that you and your father in law were able to set up such a solid arrangement. That said, Term runs until Age 85, the idea that he has a Permanent Life Insurance or Investment portfolio that will support you your entire life seems unlikely (but who knows, if generous pension was after a career in management, maybe it does). I think you are good for 23 years and thereafter as long as your father in law is alive.<br /><br />That is a long time, but it also means that it is a long time for you to prepare.<br /><br />A little bit of work here. Two online classes a semester to earn a University degree over 8 years (perhaps in education), perhaps even a graduate degree in law or accounting, fields that you could wade into without a full time commitment.<br /><br />A lawyer entering the workforce in his 40s or 50s isn't likely to make partner at a major firm, but could perhaps find some part time work that pays well.<br /><br />My only concerns for you are three-fold:<br /><br />1. Your children will not receive this benefit that you have, whereas the money being given to support you could set up VERY generous trusts for your children to give them a head start in life, instead of supporting you forever.<br /><br />2. Your middle-age and senior years are likely going to be a problem. Again, unless your father in law is extremely wealthy, it seems that the support will decline over the next 23 years (his Term 85+ payments will likely go up faster than his pension COLA), and thereafter will be fine as long as he lives. However, in your later years, you will be at the mercy of the Kollel world (which looks to have declining finances, and is a world oriented to young up and comers, not older hanger ons), you will not have a pension, and you will likely not have much in the way of social security as you get older.<br /><br />3. If your father in law's health declines, all bets are off. If he dies, the term insurance kicks in and takes care of you. But what if he gets sick and needs ever increasing medical care for 10 years? That wiped out an extended relative of ours, because you watch assets get drained quickly.<br /><br />That said, you seem to have a relatively good thing going. That's a huge advantage. With a little forward planning, you can likely keep it going.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-19441039900993538242011-02-14T08:45:00.182-05:002011-02-14T08:45:00.182-05:00Anon (and Kollel guy),
I don't think it is re...Anon (and Kollel guy),<br /><br />I don't think it is resentment (or the second best guys getting upset). I think it is a legitimate concern that many young people are not being permitted to realistically plan their lives.<br /><br />If his FIL was very farsighted and has the means to set up trusts to protect his children for their entire lives at living standard acceptable to the children, kol hakavod. This would be one of the rare situations where lifelong kollel may make sense (The other obvious situations being where the kollel guy himself is financially independent for life or is such a "super star" that he will always be given a living stipend).<br /><br />I suspect, however, that a significant fraction of people are not in these happy circumstances. The concern is that when after having 7 or 8 children, they will no longer wish the privations of kollel life, but will not be suited for any other career which can be meaningful to them and provide them with the means to live. I don't think it is jealousy to suggest that these people may wish to plan their lives somewhat differently, so they can enjoy the life that we were given by Hashem.conservative scifinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-30973949038938851892011-02-14T07:43:00.556-05:002011-02-14T07:43:00.556-05:00Wow. There seems to be growing resentment between ...Wow. There seems to be growing resentment between learners and earners in the community. I wonder if those who advise our young men and women are aware of this and what it suggests about the future of the orthodox community. It seems life a house of cards to me.<br />YoniAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-20145788236048462822011-02-14T07:01:38.749-05:002011-02-14T07:01:38.749-05:00Kollel Guy,
Best of luck to you - may you have mu...Kollel Guy,<br /><br />Best of luck to you - may you have much success in your learning and your family. I'll join the bandwagon in pointing out that your plans are fairly short term, but your expenses will grow exponentially if you have several children. If you plan to have multiple children, you should plan some way to pay for them, too.Avi Greengarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14267040237664555562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-13598989379342477742011-02-13T19:41:40.456-05:002011-02-13T19:41:40.456-05:00unique kollel guy:
your needs are few NOW
your wif...unique kollel guy:<br />your needs are few NOW<br />your wife likes to sacrifice NOW.<br />well, needs grow, and wives get tired of it. she may need to stop working alot of hours and stay home with lots of small children. My neice had one special needs child which threw all her careful plans out of whack. <br />I had ONE child who needed special Kriah tutoring at $75.00 a session, three times a week for almost a year. (thats $225 a week!) That threw my careful plans out of whack. <br />I have that high needs child that "needs" alot of encouragement and incentives to learn and that involved purchasing expensive toys and clothing I would not normally do- but I had no choice. (by the way for anyone that may be interested, none of this helped. He is now almost grown and in no better shape after all that. but we had to try)<br />I had a child who had a miserable year and I was advised by his mechanech that he NEEDED a month in camp, so he doesnt start the new year in the same mode. <br />so you see, dont be so cocky. Nobody knows what life will bring. Everyone gets hit with something that was not in their life plan. <br />Not to say that I dont wish you the best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-2951974499413028152011-02-13T16:29:40.983-05:002011-02-13T16:29:40.983-05:00these programs are usually set up for those with v...<i>these programs are usually set up for those with various disabilities</i><br /><br />correct, a special needs trust supports a disabled person through adulthood. In general, those for whom such a trust is set up do not have many dependents, if any, of their own to support (unlike a kollel family), so I'd think the amount needed to support a kollel family or families would be far greater than that needed for the living expenses (not the medical expenses, which may covered in other ways) of a disabled person.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-68113160269401834712011-02-13T14:39:39.379-05:002011-02-13T14:39:39.379-05:00As a financial planner, I will tell you that there...As a financial planner, I will tell you that there are indeed insurance and investment programs that would allow a parent to support a child and even grandchild through adulthood. This of course depends on how much money you put in initially, and these programs are usually set up for those with various disabilities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-66658654632899416542011-02-13T11:33:00.617-05:002011-02-13T11:33:00.617-05:00"The idea of studying at a Kollel is in my op..."The idea of studying at a Kollel is in my opnion very much like being a graduate student in something like philosophy."<br /><br />this is ridiculous. anyone who can make this comment clearly has no experience what is involved in being a phd student. there are regular exams, many papers, orals and a dissertation. and failure to mainting reasonable standards means expulsion. does any of this sound like kollel? and if we're talking about a grad student who is being funded, then he is likely also publishing articles along the way in peer reviewed journals and delivering original lectures at professional conferences. how many funded kollel students are doing anything even remotely similar to this? and of course the funded students (at least in philosophy and other humanities) are expected to perform at the top of the class or risk losing their funding. again, how common is this in kollel?Abba's Rantingshttp://abbasrantings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-83600734646717312282011-02-13T11:24:31.478-05:002011-02-13T11:24:31.478-05:00Anonymous, if you truly believe in what you are do...Anonymous, if you truly believe in what you are doing and you have a financial plan in place, why on earth would you let your former classmates' comments bother you?? Especially since you already hold a low opinion of them.<br /><br />As they said on the old sitcom, different strokes for different folks.tesyaanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-35895328498868321992011-02-13T11:06:56.737-05:002011-02-13T11:06:56.737-05:00To clarify. I do not know the exact specifics of m...To clarify. I do not know the exact specifics of my father-in-laws insurance. I tried to call him but he was out. I do know, however, that the funds are to go into an irrevoable trust for the benefit of my wife and myself and for any children we might have. He set this up with a financial planner with a good reputation. I will admit that one flaw in my planning is that I will not benefit from the trust if something happens to our marriage, but I don'f see that happening. I also want to clarify that I might very well decide to leave the full-time Kollel studies some time in 5 or 6 years. I have thought about going into education admininstration but want to leave all possibilities open. Once again, my main beef is with some of my former classmates and their comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com