tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post842021266458707775..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Shavout VacationOrthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-3489657383653941192010-05-18T01:37:25.722-04:002010-05-18T01:37:25.722-04:00I'm with ProfK, the parents of PS kids have pr...I'm with ProfK, the parents of PS kids have problems with scheduling and days off too. Big time. I know, my children went to elementary PS. There are always days off or half a day. Plus there are performances and getting together with mothers and mothers visiting days and all other crap that PS thinks of regardless of whether mothers work or do not. <br /><br />In addition the children can not be dropped off at public school before 8 am and must be picked up at 3 pm or they go to the police station. <br /><br />So, you have to hire a baby sitter to drop off your child (if you have to be at work on time) and pick up your child after school and on half days. (And did I mention millions of vacation days).<br /><br />Now, in yeshivas you can drop off your child earlier and school ends after four, so while you still need someone to pick up your child, it will cost you less, because it's for only an hour or two per day.<br /><br />Overall, I agree with whoever said it on top "Schools are not a baby sitting service" we should all stop complaining and demand a shorter day. These way schools won't be as expensive, the babysitter will be more dependable because she would have a stable income, and children will be in a child healthy environment rather then child prisons.mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-27671936388938767302010-05-16T23:45:03.234-04:002010-05-16T23:45:03.234-04:00Tamar, I also live in an Yishuv (rather small one)...Tamar, I also live in an Yishuv (rather small one). I can't find keytanot for every week off. The vast majority of people in our Yishuv are teachers, so there isn't that much demand.<br />Channuka: Everyone goes to eilat, no keitanot<br />Pesach: I can usually find keytanot, but sometimes they are run by 13 year old children. let's say they don't always inspire the greatest confidence.<br />The week of July before the "official" keytana starts. I'll see, I do hope.<br />The whole month of August I have never found anything and can't even find babisitters on a regular basis. I've heard of many people who end up taking turns with the husband to watch the kids and work. We'll see what we do this yearrachel qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-63218961380369212162010-05-16T22:12:26.752-04:002010-05-16T22:12:26.752-04:00I am planning to find sleepovers for all the kids ...I am planning to find sleepovers for all the kids for Monday night so I don't have to deal with the babysitting on Tuesday (how's that for creativity?)<br /><br />Thank you in advance to those families who have someone home anyway on those days!<br /><br />Here's something scary I heard today. One other family in our school is going to Israel for the whole month of September. They decided it wasn't a big deal to keep their kids out of school in September because they looked at the school calendar and saw there are something like 7 DAYS OF SCHOOL in September.<br /><br />Thankfully I have the option of accumulating comp time at work. I can see I will need the whole summer working extra to make up the days I will need off in September! :-(anon426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-61703236275570576132010-05-16T13:08:05.997-04:002010-05-16T13:08:05.997-04:00Rachel Q,
Aren't there kaytanot for Chanuka an...Rachel Q,<br />Aren't there kaytanot for Chanuka and pre-Pesach in your town? We live on a yishuv and have multiple choices for daycare during those few weeks of misrad hachinuch vacation (including the summer) -- girls usually run backyard kaytanot to fill in the gaps.Tamarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-74764517420029227552010-05-16T03:36:09.377-04:002010-05-16T03:36:09.377-04:00rachel q:
1. but you don't have to take off v...rachel q: <br />1. but you don't have to take off vacation for yom tov, so you start with more.<br /><br />2. Everyone is in the same boat as you, whether they're frum or not, so your employer doesn't look at you as the lazy one who never comes to work, the problem one, etc.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-43729062542367672992010-05-16T03:16:17.813-04:002010-05-16T03:16:17.813-04:00LeahGG: I love living in Israel but the school sch...LeahGG: I love living in Israel but the school schedule is NOT one of the reasons why. My work (and most jobs unrelated to teaching) do not follow the Misrad Hachinuch calendar and I have the same prblem described here. One week before pesach off, the entire 8 days of Chanuka, every Isru Chag. Shushan Purim, etc. No kaytanot at all on August.<br />Most companies do not give off for chol hamoed either. Most people take it off at their own expense (half a day vacation usually).rachel qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-33974397454741244362010-05-16T01:35:27.117-04:002010-05-16T01:35:27.117-04:00When I was in elementary school, we did not have &...When I was in elementary school, we did not have "early Fridays". Fridays ended at the same time as every other day of school all year round, regardless of when Shabbat was starting. There was an after-school program at the JCC (which was conveniently in the same building, just at the other end of it) for a reasonable cost. The JCC also had relatively inexpensive "vacation camp" for most of our school vacations, so parents weren't in a bind to figure out what to do with their kids.<br /><br />Granted, there were still days when my sister and/or I would have to go to work with one of our parents. I know that not everyone has a job where that would be acceptable practice; we were fortunate that both of our parents had the freedom to do that when absolutely necessary, and my sister and I were well-behaved enough to play/read quietly on our own. Years later, when I was working in a frum office for a few years, yeshiva vacation weeks were always the take-your-kids-to-work weeks. There were kids running around all over the office, and it was a bloody nuisance.Scrapshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15911315552965685448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-65255257770908014692010-05-16T01:10:15.064-04:002010-05-16T01:10:15.064-04:00PROFK:
"Anyone really looking for a raise in...PROFK:<br /><br />"Anyone really looking for a raise in tuition?"<br /><br />a) please see my comment above about shifting sunday school to vacation days.<br /><br />b) how much do you think tuition would go up for each extra day of school?<br /><br />c) givebacks?Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-44676906025983947922010-05-16T00:51:48.453-04:002010-05-16T00:51:48.453-04:00ProfK,
No, blessedly, I don't live in NYC ;...ProfK,<br /> No, blessedly, I don't live in NYC ;), or even in the tri-state area.<br />And the raise in tuition? If it comes out to less than, or even the same as, what I'd spend on a babysitter for the same time period, youbetcha! Because not having to scramble every 10 minutes for coverage alone is worth it! And at least for littles the age of my kids, continuity also has a major benefit.tovarenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11315139041035301936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-89000156105036555222010-05-16T00:36:32.247-04:002010-05-16T00:36:32.247-04:00Might as well throw this into the pot--forget days...Might as well throw this into the pot--forget days off during the school year for just a moment. What about those weeks, yes weeks between when school finishes and camps begin and between when camps finish and school begins? Also a problem for dual working parent families. So, are we asking the schools to extend the school year so that the kids go directly from school ending on a Friday to camp starting on a Monday and the reverse at the end of the summer? <br /><br />And could we also keep this in mind: extend the school year, fill in all those 1/2 days and odd days off and you are going to have the schools telling you fine, but it will cost you more. Anyone really looking for a raise in tuition?ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-68993392007402726252010-05-16T00:17:11.704-04:002010-05-16T00:17:11.704-04:00A little problem with Prof K's raya to public ...A little problem with Prof K's raya to public school is that she cites Regents schedules, for H.S. kids.<br />I don't think we are really discussing h.s. kids.<br />we are happy they have the day off, to study for the next regents test. they do not NEED babysitting the way elementary kids need it (like, legally, cannot leave little kids home alone need). <br />a little creativity would go a long way: as many have pointed out here, and in the past, they could just have fun days at school, pay sub teachers a lot less, to supervise the kids reading fun books, playing a few hours at local playgrounds. who knows what they could create, if they felt like <br />the dual-income, full tuition parents might pull their kids out if their needs for (yes, what is wrong with calling it:) babysitting are not met?<br />h.s. emaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-83400379596028108892010-05-15T23:40:44.089-04:002010-05-15T23:40:44.089-04:00and the biggest BS are the schools with sunday sch...and the biggest BS are the schools with sunday school. suggest that the this be ended (you know, so the one day we're not working our tucheses off we can actually spend with family) and the schools will cry about what will happen if the boys go a day without learning torah. i asked, "a ha, but a week and half in the end of january is ok to go without torah?" i suggested that sunday school be abolished and the money be used to put days back into the weekday schedule. very well received (not).<br /><br />PROFK:<br /><br />"Sorry, but it's not a problem limited to the frum veldt."<br /><br />first of all, the big difference is that we are paying through the gazoo for the yeshivot.<br /><br />and my wife works for the board of ed so it's pretty easy for us to compare the schedules. there is no comparison. yeshivot have many more vacation days. (my understanding is that nyc private schools are not required to have a minimum number of days, except for UPK, which is publicly subsidized.) things have changed within my lifetime. for example, i always had school on hol hamoed sukkot. same school now has vacation. also, early dismissal for performances, preschool graduation, last day of school (?!), etc. is unheard of in my wife's public school.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-39240009581980126022010-05-15T23:27:18.866-04:002010-05-15T23:27:18.866-04:00Anonymous Naftali said:
Orthodox Jews could gain ...Anonymous Naftali said:<br /><br />Orthodox Jews could gain up to six work days each year by eliminating the <i>Yom Tov Sheni Shel Galuyot</i>, which is the totally unecessary and irritating additional day of fake <i>Yom Tov</i> that is celebrated outside of Israel.<br /><br />They would also spend less on food, if holiday meals cost more than weekday meals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-53547611115431366602010-05-15T23:26:56.356-04:002010-05-15T23:26:56.356-04:00JS:
"based on the idea that doesn't EVER...JS:<br /><br />"based on the idea that doesn't EVERYONE take off for erev chag, chol hamoed, and isru chag?"<br /><br />last year i complained that my son had early dismissal (11 am) after his hanukkah play. this was on top of the other 2 days they had off for hanukkah (of course a week or so before another 2 days off for thanksgiving). response? "well a lot of parents have off on hanukkah anyway." i personally don't know any parents that have off for hanukkah. then i suggested that the kindergarten graduation, another early dismissal, be rescheduled for erev shabbat, which is already a shorter day and people have alternate arrangements for watching their kids. take a wild guess how that suggestion was received.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-2850788304031124912010-05-15T23:22:09.663-04:002010-05-15T23:22:09.663-04:00Yes, the public schools can be infuriating, too. S...Yes, the public schools can be infuriating, too. So what? That doesn't excuse our schools one bit. I'm furious that our school has off erev Shavuot. I don't have off, my wife doesn't have off, and with all the weekday yom tovim this year we don't have enough vacation time to take off if we wanted to. Never mind the time to take a proper vacation. If the schools are structured to require dual high incomes, they have to be open any day it's not yom tov. ANY DAY. ALL day. Don't make attendance mandatory, do some days or afternoons as day care / clubs rather than class, I don't care. But requiring dual six figure incomes AND live-in help is beyond ridiculous. It is unacceptable.Avi Greengarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14267040237664555562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-46986940348239027102010-05-15T22:29:37.277-04:002010-05-15T22:29:37.277-04:00Profk,
In my listing of days off and early dismis...Profk,<br /><br />In my listing of days off and early dismissals above I didn't include the half days for finals and other testing.<br /><br />No question public schools have days off that inconvenience parents, but it would seem that yeshivas create far more issues, most of which is unnecessary or based on the idea that doesn't EVERYONE take off for erev chag, chol hamoed, and isru chag?JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-29288042223785749752010-05-15T17:20:30.174-04:002010-05-15T17:20:30.174-04:00Wow. Yet another reason to love Israel. At least w...Wow. Yet another reason to love Israel. At least we don't have to use up our vacation time for holidays...<br /><br />Though there is an annoying 3 weeks of August when it's hard to find any programming, and Hannukah and Lag b'omer are off for school and not for workplaces. <br /><br />Anonymous: yes, school is a babysitting service. Ask a retired principal. (the ones who are still working won't admit it.)Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-91513526503583425442010-05-15T17:00:24.589-04:002010-05-15T17:00:24.589-04:00lets get some perspective here people. your kids ...lets get some perspective here people. your kids wouldnt learn that friday anyway, and school is not a babysitting service. <br />i suppose erev shavuos should be a half day tho...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-2100309919005580152010-05-14T19:44:49.135-04:002010-05-14T19:44:49.135-04:00Maybe everyone who has to work next Friday can dro...Maybe everyone who has to work next Friday can drop their children off at 7:30 a.m. at the homes of the administrators that set the school calendar without considering the needs of parents who have to work to pay tuition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-65701855306352318192010-05-14T19:16:24.881-04:002010-05-14T19:16:24.881-04:00ProfK-It is true that public school parents have s...ProfK-It is true that public school parents have scheduling issues, but I don't think the extend is nearly as great. Perhaps I should just make a separate post. <br /><br />I agree with anon about not complaining and being grateful for our yomim tovim (yeah, I LOVE Shavout and can hardly wait!), but who is talking about the yom tov? Friday isn't yom tov!Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-60463708382328560932010-05-14T17:44:24.393-04:002010-05-14T17:44:24.393-04:00I'm pleased to see that it sounds like the Dad...I'm pleased to see that it sounds like the Dads are bearing some of the scheduling burdens and not leaving it all to the Moms. I remember someone in my office constantly taking off at the last minute for when her kids were sick, had a dentist appointment, etc. Her husband never took off. She explained that his job "was too important," in effect, announcing to her boss that she did not consider her job to be important to her. Curiously, she was the primary bread winner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-11533090361896512842010-05-14T17:41:28.630-04:002010-05-14T17:41:28.630-04:00ProfK: Thanks for as usual providing some perspec...ProfK: Thanks for as usual providing some perspective. I agree that it is also hard for parents of students in public schools. The attitude of "oy I have it so hard because I'm observant," is not healthy and is not a good message to send. How about, "I'm so fortunate that I have so many holidays and times when families get together." We hear this all the time when complaining about the costs of weddings and kosher food, etc. as if other people didn't have weddings, didn't like to eat well, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-46231063411548128132010-05-14T17:15:34.202-04:002010-05-14T17:15:34.202-04:00Mark,
Pesach 2012: Sat Sun, Fri Sat
Shavuot...Mark,<br /><br /> Pesach 2012: Sat Sun, Fri Sat<br /> Shavuot 2012: Sun Mon<br /> Yom Kippur 2013<br /> Yom Kippur 2014<br /> Pesach 2015: Sat/Sun, Fri Sat<br /> Shavuot 2015, Sun/Mon<br /> Pesach 2016: Sat Sun, Fri Sat<br /> Shavuot 2016: Sun Mon<br /> Yom Kippur 2017: Sat<br /><br />I'm thinking, a family Vacation in 2012, 2015, and 2016 are all possible, maybe a 5 day vacation taking Thursday/Friday off...<br /><br />Sigh... When RH/Sukkot fall out on the weekends, it's a crazy month, but you don't burn all your vacation (and deal with colleagues that think taking Tuesday/Wednesday or Wednesday/Thursday makes you certifiable.<br /><br />But ANY holidays falling out over the weekend helps.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-53878431519394131522010-05-14T17:07:00.005-04:002010-05-14T17:07:00.005-04:00tovarena,
You're clearly not in the NYC school...tovarena,<br />You're clearly not in the NYC school districts. The NYC school calendar lists 81 days that are considered "special" days where school is either completely off or there is a partial day. Dividing out that some of these days are for high schools and some for elementary schools still leaves you with an easy 40-50 days that school won't be on a regular schedule. As an example, in the high schools on Regents testing days there are no regular classes, in both terms. The state mandated testing days in the elementary schools are only partial days. There are two afternoon parent conference sessions in each term and classes are not in session.<br /><br />And thanks to budget cuts there are plenty of school districts that do not offer any formal programs for working parents during off times.<br /><br />So yes, my original contention stands, that secular parents also have childcare issues with the school calendar. They aren't always off when their kids are.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-78645369771063809772010-05-14T16:42:42.879-04:002010-05-14T16:42:42.879-04:00JS,
Traditionally, January was a big time for vac...JS,<br /><br />Traditionally, January was a big time for vacations amongst the wealthy. Skiing vacations were big... since December was holiday breaks and January was a vacation.<br /><br />Indeed, some of the South Florida private schools, secular AND Jewish, began in the 1930s and 1940s as "winter schools" where families that "wintered in Florida" would enroll their children for a few weeks or months to keep up with their studies back home.<br /><br />Well, the economy has changed in that time period, and January - March is vacation "wave season" for the Cruise, Caribbean, and Florida vacation market, which at this point is retirees and Canadians, for whom long winter "holidays" are as much a part of their culture as "summer holiday" is to the French.<br /><br />The wealthy families that could have a place in the city, a house in the country, a summer home, and a winter home simply don't exist anymore. Staffing giant residences is a fortune now, and energy costs are astronomical.<br /><br />The handful of what passes for "old money" in the Jewish world is coming to an end anyway, as few families can support multiple generations with families of 3-5 children in private schools, and while I see plenty of grandparents that are taking families to Pesach Hotels, etc., I just don't see the next generation going to be able to keep that up in 20-30 years.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.com