tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post114711370792088114..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Orthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147645543126110892006-05-14T18:25:00.000-04:002006-05-14T18:25:00.000-04:00The flip side of this is that a few years ago, my ...The flip side of this is that a few years ago, my son's school tried to institute an activites fee to avoid the ineffiencies of a dozen small checks a year and allow some rational planning by both parents and the school. Sure enought a few small expenses were forgotten in the planning of the fee,so they had to be charged seperately. Similarly, though the idea was to have one fee that would cover the average costs of these activites over the 8 years of elementary school,some people compained that the actual expenses were $70 and the fee was $75. Somehow, in those classes where the fee was the other way around, no one compained. The board got slammed, no one understood what they were trying to do and they went back tot he old way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147272748139950742006-05-10T10:52:00.000-04:002006-05-10T10:52:00.000-04:00Sephardi Lady requested that I contribute this com...Sephardi Lady requested that I contribute this comment as per my comments on beyondbt.com to the frum financial crisis<BR/><BR/>We were a family with four children in new jersey, but atypical --neither set of parents could contribute a penny of financial assistance to us in terms of buying homes, tuition, vacations, credit cards, yerusha, anything. We lived on our own financial merit as a very successful professional couple commuting into Manhattan daily.<BR/><BR/>In the modern frum community, there is no place financially for our type of couple. The basic economics presume extended family assistance or yerusha --e.g., the pie being divided is by definition more than simply the after tax income of the couple adjusted for further deduction for health care and retirement.<BR/><BR/>As a result, we made aliya 3 years ago --and discovered the Darker Side of Aliya that is forbidden to discuss in America where everyone must be a cheerleader "auf yenem tuchus". Our aliya has been a failure, but now we have discovered that somewhere in year three on Israeli salaries one passes the Financial Point of No Return in terms of returning to America and jumping back onto the frum financial rat race. After losing three years of income, and calculating the remaining years of career even if we make back our prior pay grades, we will either be able to apy for retirement and health care or deeply reduced tuition for the children. <BR/><BR/>As a result, we are literally trapped in Israel with no remaining alternative of returning now that the Aliya has failed.<BR/><BR/>And, of course, we will soon join the astounding large percentage of American-American spoouse families that divorce 3-5 years after Aliya due to the drop in ramat hachayim --something no shaliyach or nefesh b'nefesh mentions before you sign on the dotted line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147268372668499922006-05-10T09:39:00.000-04:002006-05-10T09:39:00.000-04:00Hey JDub-I'm thrilled too that we won't have to de...Hey JDub-I'm thrilled too that we won't have to deal with proms, dates, and the pressure of it all too. My school wasn't so bad, but many are.<BR/><BR/>However, I would like it is parents didn't have to shell out again and again. Just bring me the menu and we will be more than happy to give our kids a budget of their own and the freedom to choose what fits in that budget. (Quite honestly, we will be lucky if anything beyond one trip to the pizza shop will fit in it.)Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147266225181924032006-05-10T09:03:00.000-04:002006-05-10T09:03:00.000-04:00I grew up on Long Island, in the late '80s. Nothi...I grew up on Long Island, in the late '80s. Nothing was free. <BR/><BR/>I am glad that my kids go to a school where this won't be an issue, not just for the financial reasons. The pressure for prom was pretty intense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147219076731301932006-05-09T19:57:00.000-04:002006-05-09T19:57:00.000-04:00Proms vary by school. I'm sure in some of the wea...Proms vary by school. I'm sure in some of the wealthier areas, parents shell out a ton. At my school, the tickets were free or nearly free, and while plenty of people indulged in tux rentals and other luxeries, others kept to a strict budget.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147210229030480802006-05-09T17:30:00.000-04:002006-05-09T17:30:00.000-04:00I agree. I can't imagine being the kid who can't ...I agree. I can't imagine being the kid who can't go to 6 flags with the rest of the class because their parents can't afford it. <BR/><BR/>At least there aren't proms! Those things were mucho dinero. The tux, corsage, and limo rental?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147206080357551712006-05-09T16:21:00.000-04:002006-05-09T16:21:00.000-04:00Spending that much money is absolutely ridiculous ...Spending that much money is absolutely ridiculous and just goes to prove how little thinking we do as a community about those with less, who should not be in the position to have to make their child(ren) the odd ones out. <BR/><BR/>Do you want to know the cost of my high school's graduation trip? $5 and that included a (trief) BBQ lunch. (I actually chose not to go because I had to do some work that day). I find it absolutely insensitive to make expensive trips that end up putting many parents into hock. While many people might be sad that they went to public school, I think I learned some of my best lessons there!Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147205644590283052006-05-09T16:14:00.000-04:002006-05-09T16:14:00.000-04:00Well, they weren't all graduation expenses, althou...Well, they weren't all graduation expenses, although some were (gown rental, etc.) Some were things like senior class trip, shabbaton, etc., that totalled $1000.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147204959766120222006-05-09T16:02:00.000-04:002006-05-09T16:02:00.000-04:00JDub-Over $1000 for graduation expenses? That is ...JDub-Over $1000 for graduation expenses? That is just heartwrenching. You are correct that the parents should set the budget, not the school! Especially with tuition already costing an arm and a leg and then some. <BR/><BR/>Esther-Well, when we get a surprise that is out of proportion, the school will just have to meet the likes of SephardiLady and SephardiMan, and SephardiKids will just have to suffer a bit. It will be worth making the point and won't hurt them in the long term! <BR/><BR/>I have no issues giving my children a "school budget" for activities and would very much like the schools to reinforce my chinuch! And, we certainly aren't teaching that money grows on trees here.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147203944984009962006-05-09T15:45:00.000-04:002006-05-09T15:45:00.000-04:00Great post as usual. We haven't really had to dea...Great post as usual. We haven't really had to deal with much of this yet but I was thinking that my parents must have dealt with this, and I wasn't really aware of it at the time. The school would just send home the latest notice about an event, supplies, etc. and my parents would send a check. (B"H they were financially able to do so.) I think the comment about having the kids choose between the activities is a good suggestion that fits your previous post about teaching kids about expenses -- although, as you mention, it is not always feasible to refuse to pay for activities in which the whole class will be participating on a school day.Estherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09546504942311091442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147181036520348092006-05-09T09:23:00.000-04:002006-05-09T09:23:00.000-04:00I was told by a parent with a graduating senior (m...I was told by a parent with a graduating senior (my kids are all in elementary or nursery) that the costs from April to June of senior year is over $1000. <BR/><BR/>We get lots of "extras" but they're all small dollar items and don't add up to much yet. <BR/><BR/>I'd be in favor of a schedule of events and associated costs going out at the beginning of the year so the parents can budget and discuss with their kids what they can go to. That way, if the kid isn't interested in the butterfly exhibit that costs $12, but is up for the siyyum at the pizza shop for $10, the parents can make that decision with the kids. (By make the decision with the kids, the parents decide how much is in the budget, and let the kids figure out what events they want to do.)<BR/><BR/>And I'm not in NY, so this thing is pretty common for out of towners as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147180717303044772006-05-09T09:18:00.000-04:002006-05-09T09:18:00.000-04:00Wolf, would you mind providing a ballpark figure f...Wolf, would you mind providing a ballpark figure for number of kids? <BR/><BR/>This problem seems more prevelant in NY (where my example came from), so I'd be curious to hear a figure from your side of the woods and maybe make a follow-up post.<BR/><BR/>This is certainly not to say that our community doesn't have issues too. Overnight class trips, Shabatons, etc cost parents a pretty penny (skiing, baseball games, food, resorts, etc).<BR/><BR/>And, I once ran into a lady pulling out money for the 4th time in one month for senior activities. For crying out loud, spread out the damage over more time. Why does every activity need to be made in the last month of the year? Problems with cash flow are how even those who can "afford" but are on the edge, find themselves with consumer debt they can't pull out of too easily.<BR/><BR/>We need to treat the parents with more care than they are being treated with now.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-1147178243688419792006-05-09T08:37:00.000-04:002006-05-09T08:37:00.000-04:00Amen!For a while, when I was using Microsoft Money...Amen!<BR/><BR/>For a while, when I was using Microsoft Money to track our expenses, I had two categories: Tuition and "other school expenses" (which covered everything from registration fees to the $8 for the kids to go to the pizza shop for a siyum.) Needless to say, by the end of the year, the "extras" category ended up being fairly large.<BR/><BR/>The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.com