tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post2494179612940690654..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Orthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-6708963909464806312009-11-21T19:12:10.496-05:002009-11-21T19:12:10.496-05:00Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium? ...Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium? <br />Help, please. All recommend this program to effectively advertise on the Internet, this is the best program!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-38042057529526720962008-11-12T16:50:00.000-05:002008-11-12T16:50:00.000-05:00Couldn't agree more the emphasis should be on beco...Couldn't agree more the emphasis should be on becoming a bar mitzvah, rather than the 'bar.'<BR/><BR/>I don't favor overdoing the bar mitzvah celebration. . . . ESPECIALLY when someone else is paying for it.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-19286132710214377342008-11-12T15:47:00.000-05:002008-11-12T15:47:00.000-05:00I think AKO's point was regarding the subject of y...I think AKO's point was regarding the subject of your post, not just your wording in the title. =-)<BR/><BR/>I've heard the remark that people focus more on the bar than on the mitzvah. I've also heard the comment that the correct terminology should be "become" a bar mitzvah instead of "have" a bar mitzvah. I've heard these in the context of criticizing the non-Orthodox world for their approach to this simcha, but I think that this has become part of the frum mentality as well, even though there is of course emphasis on the religious component as well.Estherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09546504942311091442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-64954116916057063592008-11-11T21:10:00.000-05:002008-11-11T21:10:00.000-05:00Am Kshe-Tounge in cheek blog humor. Regular reade...Am Kshe-Tounge in cheek blog humor. Regular readers hopefully would pick up the humor immediately ;)Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-18750529235798449102008-11-11T18:45:00.000-05:002008-11-11T18:45:00.000-05:00I haven't read all the comments to this post becau...I haven't read all the comments to this post because, quite honestly, I just don't have the time. So, someone may have already said this, but it bears repeating.<BR/><BR/>The title of this post is "Hachnasat Bar Mitzvah Bochur." I'm not sure if the ba'alas ha'blog came up with this term herself or if it's an actual term used in Orthodox, or perhaps only Chareidi/Yeshivish circles, but there's a point missed here: THERE IS NO SUCH MITZVAH AS HACHNASAT BAR MITZVAH BOCHUR. PERIOD. There is a mitzvah of hachnasat kallah, and it is a very important mitzvah IN A CASE WHERE THE FAMILIES ARE POOR OR THE KALLAH AND/OR THE CHATAN ARE POOR. Not poor because they're wasting away in yeshiva instead of earning a living but truly unable to pay for a wedding. THAT'S the mitzvah. <BR/><BR/>As far as a bar-mitzvah bochur? All he needs is a pair of tefillin, and an aliyah to the Torah, and perhaps a mezonos or a bagel breakfast after davening to wish the boy a mazal tov. There is absolutely NO mitzvah to have a giant fancy seudah that costs more than many people make in year. That's just ridiculous.Am Kshe Oref - A Stiff-Necked Peoplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244053147685734300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-30164581020812076572008-11-10T14:53:00.000-05:002008-11-10T14:53:00.000-05:00Regarding some of the comments from Ariella and an...Regarding some of the comments from Ariella and anonymous teach:<BR/><BR/>I can not believe that people running hachnasat kallah orgainizations are spending communal funds on expensive/luxury new furniture--and further giving it to people who are not poor! I will make some of my own inquiries, but if this is in fact the case I will, bli neder, never give to hachnasat kallah except at the request from a community Rabbi or request from someone I know well after the Rav or someone assures me of the recipients worthiness. <BR/><BR/>I can not believe that people have the gall to except holy tzedakah money collected from communal funds when they are not deserving. I am married ten years and still I'm living with hand me down or self assemble Sauder/IKEA type furniture. People accepting money from charity should be able to do without $7,000 "suites" of furniture. <BR/><BR/>Thank G-d I have been blessed to be able to pay off my student loans and have always had the ability full tuition for my children and have contributed generously to the local Rabbi's discretionary fund. Yeshivot and such have been contacting me with urgent requests to help make payroll -- and our community spends charitable resources helping children who have no business getting married play house! (chazal teach us that anyone who relies on parental support [someiach al shulchan aviv] is for certain legal purposes considered a koton or child.)<BR/><BR/>If people want to induldge their own children, that is a question of parenting philosophy. If you are asking me to indulge your child --at least call it that and don't say it is "hachnasat kallah." Send me a wedding invitation with a gift registry notice so at least I won't fol myself into thinking I am giving to charity.<BR/><BR/>There was a tremendous mitzvah of hachnasat kallah in a time where social mores dictated that a young woman needed to provide a dowry in order to find a husband. Raising money for a poor girl was the only way to make sure she was able to fulfill her destiny as a mother in Israel. Will people stop getting married today if they can't live an upper middle class lifestyle the moment they are married? (Let alone a liesure class lifestyle with a paid apartment in Jerusalem/Lakewood with internationnal travel and stylish fashions provided before each holiday.) Do people in this position think they are entitled to charity? Do they even think of it as charity or do they think of it as terumah or maaser that they are entitled to?<BR/><BR/>--NAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-14885024803751996222008-11-09T22:03:00.000-05:002008-11-09T22:03:00.000-05:00I'm not from NY, and I checked over everything I p...I'm not from NY, and I checked over everything I picked from the trash pretty carefully. Don't worry.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-57518350357132029102008-11-09T21:57:00.000-05:002008-11-09T21:57:00.000-05:00"that I picked out of the trash "Please be very, v..."that I picked out of the trash "<BR/><BR/>Please be very, very careful with this, especially if you live in the NY area. Trashed furniture (including hard furniture, like desks and headboards) often contains bedbugs these days.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-63999332953478684032008-11-09T05:27:00.000-05:002008-11-09T05:27:00.000-05:00Can I just put in that I am somewhat resentful of ...Can I just put in that I am somewhat resentful of the fact that people who try to play by the rules and buy things for themselves seem to get the short end of the stick. <BR/><BR/>Whats wrong with starting out with a folding table and plastic chairs? It might not be what you *WANT* but it will get the job done.Zach Kessinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04276155117746098546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-46080831649526583122008-11-08T21:57:00.000-05:002008-11-08T21:57:00.000-05:00mbfme said... I'm still stuck on the fact that the...mbfme said... <BR/>I'm still stuck on the fact that the poster desperately needs English lessons.<BR/><BR/>Me too! <BR/><BR/>Chaim B-Thank you for chiming in with a great understanding of the halacha. I know the non-profit sector is really hurting and common sense should tell us we must be great caretakers of the tzedakah dollars that are out there.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-42827519708975534492008-11-08T21:25:00.000-05:002008-11-08T21:25:00.000-05:00A bar mitzvah boy needs tefillin and an aliyah. I...A bar mitzvah boy needs tefillin and an aliyah. In my case, I also had a small party at home.<BR/><BR/>This whole hall thing for every celebration is completely out of hand. It is unfair, ruinous, and in my opinion assur. The Rabbis need to grow a backbone and state it as such.<BR/><BR/>MarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-79021262161099227342008-11-08T18:43:00.000-05:002008-11-08T18:43:00.000-05:00tesyaa, I do remember Caldor (and Bradlees; now we...tesyaa, I do remember Caldor (and Bradlees; now we have shifted to Target and Wal-Mart).<BR/>You community board sounds similar to mine. I always wonder if the people who try to sell their custom gowns that they say is valued at $2000 for $1000 succeed in getting anywhere near their asking price. What's even more surprising to me is the number of women seeking to sell their custom wigs that they paid over a thousand dollars for and then decided they don't like after having worn it a few times. They also seek to recoup about 75% of their cost. Now the whole value of "custom" lies in its personalization, so it has far less value for another who did not get the color, fit, etc. made to order.Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-49839586678642490972008-11-08T18:39:00.000-05:002008-11-08T18:39:00.000-05:00Most "healthy" people would be horrifically embarr...Most "healthy" people would be horrifically embarrassed to take tzedaka, and would rather live with less than accept help.<BR/><BR/>What happened to people that this stopped being the case?Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-81252062355767565252008-11-08T18:34:00.000-05:002008-11-08T18:34:00.000-05:00>>>"BUT the halacha says we are to g...>>>"BUT the halacha says we are to give tzedaka to the level the person is accustomed to."<BR/><BR/>This is an ideal that applies when the wealth of the community allows for it, but for all practical purposes, considering the many needy people and scarcity of resources, has no relevance. See Aruch haShulchan Y.D. 249Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-21554217565230903022008-11-08T18:13:00.000-05:002008-11-08T18:13:00.000-05:00I'm still stuck on the fact that the poster desper...I'm still stuck on the fact that the poster desperately needs English lessons.mbfmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04747827179444354321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-69803247471678391962008-11-08T17:04:00.000-05:002008-11-08T17:04:00.000-05:00Yeah - there's a point.. nobody owes you anything....Yeah - there's a point.. nobody owes you anything.<BR/><BR/>Over the past 2.5 years, my husband and I have gradually been replacing the stuff that people gave us and that I picked out of the trash - although some items have been fixed/cleaned up and are permanent fixtures at this point.<BR/><BR/>We were married almost 2 years before we had a table that could seat more than 4. Our baby's changing table was picked out of the trash. The stroller and crib were bought second-hand. We still live without a car, despite having a second child on the way. <BR/><BR/>We waited until we could afford things, and we continue to wait. My husband, b"h, has a good job, but I'm not able to work when I'm pregnant (currently on bedrest)and we simply can't afford EVERYTHING.<BR/><BR/>Instead of whining about what we don't have new, we prioritize, save up, buy second hand, take people's hand-me-downs(for baby clothes especially - and say thank you!) and thank Hashem that we're able to eat well, live in a nice (rental) apartment, and not worry about our finances too much.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-41486179839729755482008-11-08T16:45:00.000-05:002008-11-08T16:45:00.000-05:00LOZ: After a short email exchange in which i sugge...LOZ: After a short email exchange in which i suggested that he might consider getting a job in order to fund a car, he seemed to think that the world owed him a car. <BR/><BR/><BR/>For the record, my husband and I are still using my parents old scandanavian dining room set that's about 25 years old and still looks great (we re-covered the chairs about a year after we got married). <BR/><BR/>We did get new living room furniture because I was bringing a lift for aliya.)Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-70959824936138587002008-11-07T16:32:00.000-05:002008-11-07T16:32:00.000-05:00Whether or not the community should support this f...Whether or not the community should support this family at the means they are used to (and since they haven't yet made a bar mtizvah, I'm not sure they have a "standard" to follow) is definitely a question for a communal posek, not for a friend/neighbor to decide and solicite funds for. Those giving should be assured they are giving tzedakah/maaser according to a halachic opinion. <BR/><BR/>I still can't get past the fact that a family that losses their income source(I will assume that, like most Americans, savings are insufficient) and will need significant support <B>including day school tuition</B> for a number of children, can think about throwing an "affair" on the community's dime. <BR/><BR/>It seems to me that chazal 1) told us to support those who become impoverished at their level and 2)that one should do everything possible to live independently and not be a receipient of tzedakah.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-15656242482996430762008-11-07T12:28:00.000-05:002008-11-07T12:28:00.000-05:00I am not yet married; however, I am currently enga...I am not yet married; however, I am currently engaged, and have had some interesting discussions with people. My chosson and I both work, and only buy what we can afford. In terms of furniture, we are checking out the local consignment shops, and saving up for what we want.<BR/>I recently had a conversation with someone who told me that I could call the local hachnasas kallah and they would provide me with all the things I needed and wanted, and it would be new and free. (I think at the time I was mentioning the cost of various items.) I remarked that I did not want to be taking away from someone who really needed these items, and that if I could not afford to purchase them, perhaps I did not need them. The individual I was speaking with told me that everybody gets from the hachnassas kallah, and it was perfectly fine. This individual could not understand that I would not take advantage of this, and that I would only purchase what I could afford. I was baffled by this, and still am.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-13187135472548870752008-11-07T11:26:00.000-05:002008-11-07T11:26:00.000-05:00Ariella, this brings back memories. We got a bedr...Ariella, this brings back memories. We got a bedroom set after about 8 years of marriage, which is still going strong (looks brand new 12 years later), but when we got married my husband's night table was one he had as a child (or something like that), and mine was a wicker bathroom piece that my in-laws didn't need anymore. Our dressers were from Caldor (remember Caldor), and to be honest they fell apart pretty quickly. And we were both working! We just didn't see the need to spend money like that.<BR/><BR/>I love getting (and giving) free stuff, but here's another surprise. On my community board people are always trying to sell used stuff for 90% of what they paid for it. They have no idea of depreciation, that just because they paid $60 for something, they shouldn't be able to get $55 for it used. Whereas on places like Craigslist and Ebay, sellers have much more realistic ideas and you can get much better bargains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-26443910554943849222008-11-07T11:04:00.000-05:002008-11-07T11:04:00.000-05:00one other thing I wanted to say, when we upgraded ...one other thing I wanted to say, when we upgraded our dining room and later when we moved we gave away or sold some furniture for just a few dollars. I remember there was a young couple that took the table and chairs that had served us for at least 3 years. But I get the sense that most people today would look down their noses at the used stuff. It is part of that culture of entitlement. A furniture dealer told me that there are hachnosos kallah tzedakas that will even pay for those "chasson kallah" suites of furniture sold for as much as seven thousand dollars. He said that they believe the young people should have the dining room and bedroom sets right from the beginning. When my husband and I married, the only new furnishings we bought were beds. Other furnishings were from my home, and we had no sofas or easy chairs at all until we literally inherited them close to a year after we were married.<BR/>So what should people expect, and who should pay for these expectations?Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-66925980468501076782008-11-07T10:57:00.000-05:002008-11-07T10:57:00.000-05:00just to clarify, honestly frum, the person who mad...just to clarify, honestly frum, the person who made the request for the wedding, etc. did a follow-up post saying that they were getting advice of places to go to (I suppose gmachs and such) but that was not what they were after. So it seems they really wanted new things. And there are tzedaka organizations that provide brand new furniture, linens, etc., Yad Batya lekallah. <BR/><BR/>I once got the account from someone on the receiving end of this. She was very happy to get the free stuff and to have individuals (not friends or family) provide her with money, etc. for her wedding needs. Her parents were only willing to give her a few thousand toward the wedding, and she had very definite ideas about what she wanted. She actually took great pride in the fact that she did not have to compromise her standard because she was able to get people to pitch in for her.Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-78411097418827245102008-11-07T10:48:00.000-05:002008-11-07T10:48:00.000-05:00Anyone can ask for tzedukah and people have the ch...Anyone can ask for tzedukah and people have the choice whether or not to donate. For example there is a charity for terminally ill kids called Make a Wish. However, for the same price that an American family with a dying child can be sent to Disney land, probably 100 African children could be treated for serious diseases. Americans who identify with the American family might be more inclined to donate to Make a Wish instead of giving to a fund that provides medical care to Africans. With tzedukahs it depends on how the sale is pitched. Could a family really enjoy making a lavish Bar Mitzvah for their own kid when the kid next door can only afford a kiddish with cake, herring, and soda?rosiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03750230430610565818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-53035112308212131722008-11-07T10:04:00.000-05:002008-11-07T10:04:00.000-05:00To play devils advocate here for a second regardin...To play devils advocate here for a second regarding the post of the young couple looking for a hand out for furniture, is it possible they were looking for furniture from people who were giving it away? When my wife and I first got married we were quite successful in getting a bunch of furniture and other household items by looking on the community lists and getting things from people giving them away (a nice china closet from people who were "updating", a very inexpensive nice dinette set from people getting rid of it, bookshelves from people making aliya). In turn we also try to do the same with items we are no longer using. Community lists are great resources for young couples looking to furnish a first apartment on the cheap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-83969034422571854252008-11-07T08:16:00.000-05:002008-11-07T08:16:00.000-05:00Ahuva makes an important point. IN truth we are ba...Ahuva makes an important point. IN truth we are barraged with requests of this sort on the 5 Towns shuls list. The moderators once even inadvertently posted an individual's ballistic response to the request that the community donate to provide someone with Pesach in a hotel. Given that there are limited resources, do we have an obligation to give to every cause or to determine which causes merit more support? I know I have my favorite tzedakas. And I 'm not sure that the principle of "aniye ircha kodmin" applies to enabling people to make a grander affair than they could afford in their present circumstances before giving money to supply basic food to people who really have nothing. Perhaps some halachic authorities should look into this.Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.com