tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post4329347412251064626..comments2024-03-24T05:22:27.179-04:00Comments on Orthonomics: Orthonomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-45837691792960411382010-01-20T09:51:57.559-05:002010-01-20T09:51:57.559-05:00Dave, which goes back to my suggestion, stop with ...Dave, which goes back to my suggestion, stop with the heavy Jewish education, focus on the heavy childbirth.<br /><br />Jewish education needs to stand on it's own, something you want to give your kids. As a means to an end, keeping your kids Frum, it's an utter failure.<br /><br />If people enjoy being Orthodox, they'll stay Orthodox whether they believe/know the details of the faith. If people don't enjoy being Orthodox (because they live in relative poverty), they won't be Orthodox, regardless of how knowledgeable they are.<br /><br />I really enjoy my conversations with the Yeshiva educated finance guy at the office, who is amused my my observance but lack of knowledge. OTOH, he and he Catholic Wife didn't send their kids to Yeshiva, for obvious reasons... :)Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-8975003938873100022010-01-19T19:24:59.546-05:002010-01-19T19:24:59.546-05:00The web site linked above ( http://www.threejews.n...The web site linked above ( http://www.threejews.net/2008/09/will-your-grandchildren-be-reform.html ) has the percentage of those raised Orthodox who remained Orthodox at 42%.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391023891253673160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-55067492889092827712010-01-18T15:47:02.570-05:002010-01-18T15:47:02.570-05:00Agreed on 3 being the new 2... interesting thing I...Agreed on 3 being the new 2... interesting thing I read a year or two ago (we'll see with the new census soon enough):<br /><br />1. "Spinster Rate" is up to 40% (women that never have children<br />2. Births/woman have been constant in the US and slightly over the 2.1 mark, Births/mother have gone up<br />3. Spinster Rate is very low amongst "very religious" (attend Church > once/week), low amongst "somewhat religious" (attend Church once/week), and high amongst the infrequent Church and the almost no Church groups<br /><br />As a result, Americans born now are more likely to be in a larger, more religious family, and that is part of powering America's religious resurgence.<br /><br />Simple Arithmatic:<br />If:<br />"Spinster" rate = 40%<br />AND<br />Births/woman = 2.1<br />Then: Births/mother = 3.5<br /><br />So 3 may be the new two, and yesterday's 2.5 children is now 3.5 children, but fewer women are procreating.<br /><br />Regarding the Charities: I agree that there is Jewish support for Haiti. I don't understand HOW to reconcile the "keep Tzedakah local" with the desire to help the truly poor. Those of us in upper middle class MO communities that "help the locals" aren't really helping the poor... helping a $15k/year Yeshiva, while Tzedakah and Charity, is no more of helping the poor than giving to Harvard's Endowment/Scholarship Funds.<br /><br />That's the part that I'm finding difficult to reconcile.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-86081435870518911452010-01-18T15:12:51.314-05:002010-01-18T15:12:51.314-05:00ZAKA is in Haiti. The OU is taking a collection. ...ZAKA is in Haiti. The OU is taking a collection. We aren't punting. <br /><br />I think Modern Orthodox families would have more children without tuition. But I know plenty of modern Orthodox families with lots of kids. I think many of us are taking this mitzvah seriously and I agree with Commentor Abbi, many from 2 kid households are having more than their parents. I believe this is true in the general population too. I have noted, amongst non-Jewish friends, that 3 seems to be the new 2.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-50975273266673385052010-01-18T12:17:03.825-05:002010-01-18T12:17:03.825-05:00Commenter Abbi,
Agreed, American Jews have bee...Commenter Abbi,<br /><br /> Agreed, American Jews have been amongst the lead efforts to give to Haiti. I'm trying to reconcile that with "75% of Tzedakah inside our local community" and the push to not do outside giving. Perhaps I'm too literal, and it's really talking about Yeshiva Tzedakah? i.e. give to whatever charities you want, but if you are giving $2000 to Yeshivot, $1500 should be local, $500 can go to Israel?<br /><br />Regarding birthrates, according to NJPS 2000 (children per woman):<br /><br />Hasidic/Yeshiva Orthodox: 6.72<br />Centrist Orthodox: 3.39<br />Conservative: 1.74<br />Reform: 1.36<br />Secular: 1.29<br /><br />The definition from that study lumps people we would classify as Modern Orthodox, Conservadox, and nominally Orthodox (the latter two being: Orthodox Shul, non observant life) into Centrist Orthodox.<br /><br />No doubt that your peer group choose 3, but if the average is 3.39, there are a bunch of 4s and 5s in there...<br /><br />But, if 3 is doable, and 4 is not, that further indicates that the MO world may have a financial crisis, but we don't have a tuition crisis... the crisis levels of tuition his at 4 or 5 kids.<br /><br />Up until 3 kids, you are slammed with tuition, but the level isn't more than the general income increase between the time you buy your house and get your last kids in school. High school may shove you into debt, but you can limp until then.<br /><br />At 4 and 5 is when the crisis point hits. However, I wonder if there are that many people with 4 or 5 kids and dual-professional families, or do most of those families have a wife in the Day Schools that facilitates having 4+ kids plus keeping tuition manageable.<br /><br />Honestly Frum's group of the squeezed might be REALLY small!Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-55225057218279008992010-01-18T11:48:33.221-05:002010-01-18T11:48:33.221-05:00You must not be reading the right newspapers becau...You must not be reading the right newspapers because Federations across the country are organizing relief drives for Haiti (last I checked, middle class Jews were still donating to Federation) http://www.jewishjournal.com/world/article/haiti_relief_how_your_can_help_20100113/<br /><br />As far as the American Orthodox community is concerned, the fact that research numbers don't prove incontrovertibly that day school is the way to go will not suddenly change the community's mind regarding the efficacy or necessity of day school. <br /><br />Also, there are many factors that go into the decision of having children, day school tuition being one of them. <br /><br />Not sure where you're getting your numbers from, aside from anecdotes, but most of my friends (Gen Xers in their 30's) are having 3 kids, whereas most pple in my parents' Boomer generation had two (when day school tuition was supposedly affordable). I hardly think the Orthodox community is decimating itself. <br /><br />Most of my friends who wanted more than 3 came to Israel.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-6839226713617482322010-01-18T10:00:28.543-05:002010-01-18T10:00:28.543-05:00Commenter Abbi,
The average American family spend...Commenter Abbi,<br /><br />The average American family spends something on the order of $250k getting them to age 18.<br /><br />The "average" MO family (those that actually pay their bill and not hand it to others) will spend $250k on schooling, so probably at least $500k to get them to age 18.<br /><br />I'm NOT expecting a 100% success rate, but what is the control group?<br /><br />Evangelicals retain at 40% using basically Christian Rock Concerts and goofy Mega Churches.<br /><br />Would we retain 40% using NCSY and Shabbatons?<br /><br />Honestly Frum and others have screamed out that our children won't be Frum without Day School. The counter is that it's a slightly better than even coin toss with Day School, and no clue what it would be without a coin toss.<br /><br />I am suggesting that if your justification/fear tactic for universal Yeshiva is assimilation, the numbers aren't supporting you when you factor in Tuition as Birth Control. I think that there might be more Frum 18 year olds in 18 years if we scrapped Day School and encouraged more child birth, a fact nobody disputed.<br /><br />If the argument for Day School is the great education in Judaism AND Secular, plus the wonderful environment for the children, that's a phenomenal argument... BUT that makes Day School a luxury, not a necessity.<br /><br />I asked Honestly Frum if he would rather a family keep sending to Day School and use Birth Control to stop having children, or use a Public school and have more Jewish children.<br /><br />He punted saying "neither," our religious leaders punt saying "neither," but despite the proclamations, our behavior suggestions that the former is preferred.<br /><br />We have prioritized full time Yeshiva OVER having more children. I find this problematic because while the form is a "good thing," raising it to the level of Mitzvah implied that for 3400 years Jews were negligent in education, so to pursue a wonderful luxury, we've punted a Mitzvah.<br /><br />I haven't heard a thing about helping Haiti relief organizations. Huge disaster near our borders, the rest of the country is pitching in. Accepting that it is more important to help starving Jews than starving Haitians, is it more import to provide private schooling to middle class Jews than help starving Haitians?Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-58956610848425986942010-01-18T01:30:36.078-05:002010-01-18T01:30:36.078-05:00Al, are you looking for 100% success rate? That...Al, are you looking for 100% success rate? That's not possible unless you turned Orthodox judaism into a Soviet police state or a cult. There's that nasty human trait called "free will" that allows anyone to live their life as they choose. 60% success for something that needs to be freely chosen by the individual who has a huge supermarket of spiritual and religious choices right at his/her doorstep seems rather high to me. Significantly more than half of the children who grow up frum and go to day school end up continuing to refuse to work on Shabbat, keep kosher and marry a Jew? Sounds like great odds to me.<br /><br />You're right, though, the astronomical sums of money will end up decimating the American Orthodox community one way or another. Reminds me of the Titanic.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-91901880612275085772010-01-17T20:48:31.581-05:002010-01-17T20:48:31.581-05:00Commenter Abbi...
If the Orthodox community is es...Commenter Abbi...<br /><br />If the Orthodox community is essential for transmitting Orthodoxy, then we really need to work on the success rate.<br /><br />60% success after 18 years seclusion and $250k in private schooling?!?!?<br /><br />Evangelicals muster up a 40% transmission rate with rock concerts and teleconference Churches.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-91073326955423261062010-01-17T20:48:15.289-05:002010-01-17T20:48:15.289-05:00Commenter Abbi...
If the Orthodox community is es...Commenter Abbi...<br /><br />If the Orthodox community is essential for transmitting Orthodoxy, then we really need to work on the success rate.<br /><br />60% success after 18 years seclusion and $250k in private schooling?!?!?<br /><br />Evangelicals muster up a 40% transmission rate with rock concerts and teleconference Churches.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-56772438652187742332010-01-17T19:27:26.653-05:002010-01-17T19:27:26.653-05:00Ahavah Gayle:
You hit the nail on the head.
Than...Ahavah Gayle:<br /><br />You hit the nail on the head.<br /><br />Thank you.<br /><br />That is almost EXACTLY what I am talking about. I grew up in a town that is 10 minutes away from a mikveh. Kosher shopping is all over the place (my NON-JEWISH town has a supermarket, the bakery of which is kosher by default--you can't buy fresh treif bread there, it's ALL pareve and the cakes & deserts are ALL kosher dairy).<br /><br />Even if I don't live physically IN the Jewish community, we would be so close to it that being a functional part of it in many, many ways would not be a problem at all.<br /><br />I am FULLY ready to roll on putting in the work and "working the plan" as it develops. And living 5-10 minutes away from multiple orthodox shuls, I have to believe that "where there is a will, there can be a way if you really pour on the work ethic and make it a fundamental priority to make it work."<br /><br />Thank you for your rejuvenating posts. I'm very grateful.Aspiring Fathernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-53418796432050646602010-01-17T16:49:58.288-05:002010-01-17T16:49:58.288-05:00Ahavah- your setup sounds great for a nonOrthodox...Ahavah- your setup sounds great for a nonOrthodox family/community, where you're open to a range of influences and you're not as concerned that your own family's religious/ritual behavior is mirrored by many other neighboring families for your children. This mirroring is indeed very powerful and for Orthodox families, it's essential. <br /><br />You can belittle Orthodox communities as full of "non self starters" but community is essential to propagating Orthodox Jewish life. The family is essential as well, but they work hand in hand. For a family looking for daily minyanim and shiurim, Friday night Havura activities aren't enough. This is Conservative Judaism, which is fine, but it's not Orthodox.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-69385972286135908072010-01-17T16:38:31.074-05:002010-01-17T16:38:31.074-05:00For me, Shabbat was a big problem because I had th...For me, Shabbat was a big problem because I had the choice of "playing" with my dad (my mom ALWAYS napped Shabbat afternoon), playing with non-Jewish friends, or playing alone. The last 4 years I lived in the US, there was not one person in the neighborhood within shooting distance of my age - there were kids I babysat for and there were retirees - so I spent Shabbat afternoon playing connect 4 with my dad or holed up in my room reading. <br /><br />Probably not the best situation for a teenager who had recently lost her best friend...btas.<br /><br />Where I currently live, I have several friends in walking distance who keep kosher homes. We meet in the park on Shabbat afternoons and our kids can play together and not be the only "weirdos" who wear "beanies" on their heads. <br /><br />As to wanting the community and putting in, I'm happy to help prepare meals when people are sick, and was grateful when people did it for us as well. I've served on my shul's va'ad. My husband is the treasurer at the moment. <br /><br />My older daughter is 2.5, so the kids aren't in school as such and there is no PTA to be involved in. <br /><br />So, yes, I want a community, and I'm perfectly willing to put in the time and effort to make it happen.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-32573631348269809152010-01-17T16:19:17.735-05:002010-01-17T16:19:17.735-05:00To aspiring father, continued:
...And they have p...To aspiring father, continued:<br /><br />...And they have plenty of opportunities through the week to socialize with their peers (I won't bore you with more homeschooling and homeschool co-op support, everybody here knows I am strongly in favor of it. The only way the dayschool system will survive is to transform itself into something that looks a lot more like what the Xians do, usually involving unpaid (or barely paid) parents as teachers and office help). My kids also volunteer - willingly, cheerfully - and serve the community though the local Jewish Federation, where I work a couple of hours a day doing bookkeeping and they can help and/or participate with anything and everything that might be happening that day in the way of classes, activities, meetings or social groups. <br /><br />In truth, you only get out of Judaism what you put into it. I have found those who are most insistent on a "community" being necessary are those who are least willing to actually be an active part of it - they want to passively just take advantage of the opportunities and institutions put in place by others. They want somebody else to do the real work. A self-starter doesn't need those things - there's no reason a minyan or a kid's class can't meet in each other's homes just as well as an expensive fancy building.<br /><br />But however it works out eventually, the current dayschool model is doomed to collapse under it's own unsustainable economic weight - that's a fact, and wishing other wise won't keep it from happening. It's not school or a big shul that makes Judaism relevant to a kid's life - mostly, it's their parents (IMHO). Distracted or disinterested (or worse, hypocrital) parents will never have observant children. And the attrition rate for orthodoxy(i.e. those who go OTD or move to a less frum branch of Judaism) is over 40%, so dayschool and all the trimmings of the FFB package are not any sort of guarantee you'll have spiritual children.<br /><br />Source: http://www.threejews.net/2008/09/will-your-grandchildren-be-reform.html<br /><br />Only good parenting is.Ahavahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795309173195607578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-51374149678688683232010-01-17T16:18:53.609-05:002010-01-17T16:18:53.609-05:00Aspiring Father:
It's not true that there'...Aspiring Father:<br /><br />It's not true that there's no Jewish community that would meet your needs - as someone above commented. You might try Louisville or Lexington Kentucky (as someone else joked), or southern Indiana or southern Ohio. There are numerous smaller town in the midwest that have small Jewish communities near larger Jewish communities - that is, they have or are near the infrastructure we need. Lexington in particular sounds more your style - conservative shul with daily minyan, 1 hour drive to the Mikvah at Louisville (or if you prefer: 1.5 hours to the Cincinnati area). Some wealthy snobs but most here are middle class. Daytrips to either for Jewish/Kosher shopping (and you can special order just about anything over the internet, you know), and leisurely Shabbats at home (as we generally do) or at the Conservative Shul (on yom tovim and special occasions) or with the local Havurah at each other's homes (on a rotating basis). There are about 500 Jewish families total in Lex, maybe a few more - most are reform or conservative, with some MO, reconstructionist, and secular thrown in for good measure. There are a few frum families, also...<br /><br />But the point is my kids (teens) are never bored, especially on shabbat. We as a family say the prayers, read Torah, enjoy the pre-prepared meals (crock pots and casseroles, of course) and in between we take walks (weather permitting to the nearby local park), or play cards and board games, read for pleasure, or even take a nap if everyone is tired from staying up late the evening before or other activities at shul or Havurah. They enjoy shabbat - the person who complained about being "alone" for shabbat had parents who didn't make any effort for shabbat to be an enjoyable day for family time. Nobody enjoys a "puritan" attitude of everything have to be "serious" and glum - shabbat is supposed to be peaceful, not stressful. An organized and concerned parent will create an enjoyable atmosphere were the Torah portion can be discussed vibrantly, the food is extra special (and they get desserts, which they don't get the rest of the week), and so forth. Shabbat is only boring if you let it be, whether your kids have observant neighbors or not. <br /><br />continued...Ahavahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795309173195607578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-50757373593530490032010-01-17T04:04:31.426-05:002010-01-17T04:04:31.426-05:00Aspiring Father, it sounds like you're not pla...Aspiring Father, it sounds like you're not planning to live an Orthodox life when you marry and raise a family, which is perfectly fine, but why are you expecting a pat on the back when you announce this on a clearly Orthodox blog? <br /><br />Live whatever life you like, be as judgmental and prejudicial as you please but don't expect a big handshake for it.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-14781582547417414952010-01-17T02:10:05.877-05:002010-01-17T02:10:05.877-05:00@Aspiring Father,
Dude, you're overreacting. ...@Aspiring Father,<br /><br />Dude, you're overreacting. It isn't that bad - and most certainly not universally that bad - even in Teaneck. Heck, one of my most grounded, parenting-centric friends actually grew up in Brooklyn. (Honest!) You say you don't like Teaneck or the 5 towns or Newton? I don't blame you. You think that Silver Spring, Seattle, Detroit, or Sharon are still too bourgeoisie for you? Try Denver or Eugene or Kansas City or Malden. But your "I don't want 'em and I don't need 'em" plan gives up more than you realize.Avi Greengarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14267040237664555562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-58197835595891975962010-01-15T10:13:32.237-05:002010-01-15T10:13:32.237-05:00"Why does the shluchim online school charge $..."Why does the shluchim online school charge $5000?"<br /><br />that does sound like a lot of money. this is actually my son's base tuition (before the extras) in a regular school.<br /><br />does anyone know what a comparative non-jewish online curriculum costs?Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-54995642737976291532010-01-15T10:03:19.493-05:002010-01-15T10:03:19.493-05:00Why does the shluchim online school charge $5000? ...Why does the shluchim online school charge $5000? What are their expenses other than paying the teachers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-67755447006722422762010-01-15T09:37:21.694-05:002010-01-15T09:37:21.694-05:00I enjoy discussions with Aspiring Father, because ...I enjoy discussions with Aspiring Father, because we share goals of fatherhood... But I am an unapologetic yuppy Jew, I might be past that and an almost waspy Jew... :)<br /><br />However, I take the time to be with my children EVERY night. I'm not just there on Shabbat, though I love a whole day with family and kind of sad that as the kids get older Shul, Groups, and seeing friends will displace our wonderful family time, so I cherish this time. We have early minyanim on Shabbat so I can daven with a Minyan AND be a father.<br /><br />However, I make no apologies for having nice things and giving my children the best. I would LOVE to give them the best education within a Jewish environment, unfortunately in South Florida, that isn't an option for me, so we'll make do.<br /><br />But, Aspiring Dad should meet more Jews... leave the Northeast US (and the 6th Borough down here) and you will find plenty of Jews with real down to earth values...<br /><br />Envy of neighbor, socialist school based economies, etc., aren't Jewish values, they have been adopted from the surrounding communities.<br /><br />OTOH, a few years ago was reading about the dying Jewish communities in the South. The communities are getting older, because as the kids enter adulthood they move to the "big cities" like Atlanta and Charleston, which might not seem big to those in the greater NY area, but they are plenty big for that region.<br /><br />But I think he could do well in a small town an hour outside the city with Jewish people. Atlantic City New Jersey is an hour from Philly, two hours from NYC, has a Day School, several Orthodox Shuls, a few restaurants, and a small town vibe when you leave the Casino area... however the Margate area where the rich Jews have summer homes is exactly what he's described, but other towns in that area are very different.<br /><br />He CAN have his cake and eat it too. It just means finding a Chabad in a town NEAR a major Jewish zone.Miami Alnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-51032534403898092392010-01-15T08:04:54.178-05:002010-01-15T08:04:54.178-05:00Aspiring Dad:
i've been reading your comments...Aspiring Dad:<br /><br />i've been reading your comments over the past few posts. i though i was cynical, but you make me look an unrepentant apologist.<br /><br />i've only seen 2 foreign jewish communities 1 time each (atlanta, philadelphia) and it was a long time ago to visit friends (not as a pilot trip) so i really don't know much about non NY/NJ communities. but i can't beleive that in this entire country there isn't a single tiny jewish community that could serve your needs. you are obviously willing to move and consider places the rest of us would never even fathom, yet there is not one community for you?<br />you have something personal against all us yuppie jews? fine. i know there are tiny dying communities of eldlerly jews in middle america out there too. maybe consider one of those. at least then you have the jewish infrastructure and the very basics of a community but you won't have to deal with us.<br /><br />good luck.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-10626614146940789382010-01-15T07:22:05.799-05:002010-01-15T07:22:05.799-05:00I apologize. My last comment was out of line. I cl...I apologize. My last comment was out of line. I clearly feel very strongly about this issue, apparently too strongly to be involved in this discussion.<br /><br />I am sorry. I should not have been so rude.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-83517998925291669792010-01-15T02:42:21.310-05:002010-01-15T02:42:21.310-05:00My husband's frum family lived in a non-Jewish...My husband's frum family lived in a non-Jewish neighborhood many miles from the Orthodox community. The children went to day schools and at times there was a minyan in the neighborhood. The children were close in age. They are all frum and very close as adults. For the record, my husband says they did not watch TV on Shabbat at their friends' houses.<br />For the record, they did not choose the neighborhood because of the wonderful neighbors and sense of community. Part of the reason for not moving was economic.<br />None of the children choose to live that way now.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-51700878124953655922010-01-15T02:39:00.016-05:002010-01-15T02:39:00.016-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21976303.post-60635543082001698752010-01-15T02:32:25.641-05:002010-01-15T02:32:25.641-05:00LeahGG:
Fort Julio was a joke.
I grew 10 minutes...LeahGG:<br /><br />Fort Julio was a joke.<br /><br />I grew 10 minutes away from a mikva. You are comparing apples and oranges.<br /><br />Maybe in the derekh eretz that you are accustomed to, "the rest of the time, life is busy, busy, flying by, you don't have time to notice what's happening. But Shabbos is when you're supposed to take the time to think."<br /><br />It is precisely because that is the prevailing derekh eretz in most Jewish communities that I cannot fathom why I would ever want to subject my family to living in a place where they get 6 days of living with their mother and her pocketbook, and 1 day living their their mother and this strange dude who shows up to enjoy shabbos and tries haltingly to remember their names.<br /><br />Let's be clear: I have no intention of becoming a shabbos father, and I will consider myself a categorical failure if I do.<br /><br />As far as public school? You're not accounting for that part of their education that does not take place in the public school. You're also not accounting for other Jewish activities that can be coordinated when you live in a town that borders on a majority-Jewish town. The resources are there.<br /><br />Your description of paranoid/hyperscrutinizing "friends' parents" does not apply to numerous and very laid-back/relaxed good friends of mine in the Jewish town near to the town that I hail from. They're very cool with the notion that we don't need to ram our particular level of observance down the throats of everyone we deal with--whether on shabbos or at other times of the week.Aspiring Fathernoreply@blogger.com