Wednesday, March 01, 2006

More on Gedolim Cards: The socialists among us

Many seem to feel that the manufacturer of the "Gedolim Cards" should not view his enterprise as a business, but rather as a chessed project. Apparently, the manufacturer should dedicate his time to producing the cards for little or more profit so that we can all benefit from the education they may potentially provide. This letter grandmother writes:



"If these stickers are truly a vehicle for our children to educate themselves and have fun at the same time, then the business-minded individuals who are selling these stickers should make each sticker more readily available." And, "If these stickers were meant to educate our children, then perhaps the individuals who thought of the idea would come up with a better plan. It is blatantly apparent that these stickers are systematically released and certain gedolim are a rare find. After a reasonable amount of time and for an appropriate price why not sell the set and then release a new series? Or, simply play fair and release enough of each sticker to keep the children interested and, most importantly, not consistently asking their parents - or grandparents for that matter - for money to support the pockets of others."

Michelle of My Humble Jewish Opinion also seems to feel the same way and writes


"I would think the goal of [collecting gedolim cards] is to have the kids focus on people that truly contribute to society and Torah, and once they have the cards, they can learn more about them, and consider them role models. But this twist in the system is typical of the Jewish money-hungry mind. He makes the parents spend a lot of money buying packages of cards."

Michelle continues:


"He's abusing the fact that the Yeshivish community is more willing to spend money on Jewish themed products. So these mothers are shelling out the big bucks...and it's completely against what it stand for itself. These Gedolim are for simple lives, involved in Torah-not immersed in materialism and all that. I just don't get it."

Many of the commentators of My Humble Jewish Opinion agree and call the manufacturer a "bastard" or "greedy."

A few things:

1. The manufacturer of the cards is "business-minded", which is exactly why he chose a successful business model that has proven successful since the advent of the first baseball card. If it wasn't for the profit-motive, he wouldn't be pursuing this idea.

2. The manufacturer has as much of a right to make money as any of us. He has bills to pay and kids to raise. The fact that he came up with an idea should be to his credit, although if I was a gadol, I would not want my picture on a card.

3. There is no exploitation going on. The business model is well-known and any kid can explain it to you.

4. If a child is "making" his parents buy him cards, then it is clear who is in charge (not the parents). These parents (and grandparents) should set some limits before they get run over by all of the demands their children will "force" upon them as they get older.

5. And, most importantly, you do NOT need to buy your children Gedolim Cards or any other item their heart desires. It is quite all right to say no to your child. And, if you see the value of them owning these cards, than tell your cleaning lady (in our house, that would be me) to take a day off and let the kids scrub the floors and the toilets to earn some extra money.

Every time I see people whine and complain about the Gedolim Cards, it becomes quite quite clear to me that we, as a group, are a weak set of parents and grandparents. I'm glad my parents had no problem saying no to many of my requests (Cabbage Patch Kids, Teddy Rumpskin, a Nintendo). They were not weak and I was the beneficiary.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

SL-

I agree with your assessment of the situation 100%. We live in a capitalist society, and if someone found a niche market to make a living, let him charge what the market will bear. As you correctly wrote, no one is forcing anyone to buy these cards. And as soon as someone comes up with a 3-D holographic imaging system of gedolim giving inspiring divrei Torah, the cards will be a thing of the past.

I hereby patent that idea, so don't even think of trying something like that. It's MY retirement fund :)

If one wants to vent about pricing how about distributors who raise their prices before major chaggim. Why does chicken suddenly cost more to produce before Pesach and Sukkot?

BrooklynWolf said...

Amen. It's about time that parents take responsibility for teaching children that they can't have everything that they ask for and that you sometimes have to delay your gratification for the sake of family economics.

The fact of the matter is that it should have been obvious to anyone at the outset that there would be a limited number of one or two cards. If the manufacturer was going to offer trips and other prizes to someone who collects the entire set, then obviously collecting the entire set is going to be difficult. Did they really think that the manufacturer did this so that he could give out thousands of trips, bikes, etc.?

The Wolf

respondingtojblogs said...


If one wants to vent about pricing how about distributors who raise their prices before major chaggim. Why does chicken suddenly cost more to produce before Pesach and Sukkot?


Increased demand on a limited supply? I thought you were cool with a free market.

Anonymous said...

"let the kids scrub the floors and the toilets to earn some extra money."

I am reminded of the practice at some mosdos haTorah to have students clean the premises (at least partially). Such was the practice in the Talmud Torah of Kelm (Hy"d) as well as (perhaps still is) at (lihavdil, leorech yomim...) the Yeshiva of Rav Yehuda Davis z"l (I think that is Yeshiva Zichron Meir of Mountaindale). I like the idea !

Yitzchak Jakobi said...

I do have to say this - at least the kids are desperate to collect Gedolim cards and not action figures. At least on some surface level, these kids are getting an apreciation for gadlus.

Although I can't understand how families with limited resources are blowing their money on things like this, but at least their hearts are in the right place.

Anonymous said...

Responding-

Yes, I'm okay with free market forces. But I do not remember there ever being a claim of a shortage of meat that necessitated raising the prices. In other words, I think it's more a case of gouging. Suppliers know the crowds will be coming so they try to maximize their profits.

I want to say, though, that the retailer is often the one in the biggest crunch. He or she doesn't want to raise prices because it will alienate customers. And in towns where the big national or regional supermarkets have gotten into kosher food there is even more pressure because the giants can take the price hit. So any increase by the mom and pop store is immediately felt.

This is getting far afield from the gedolim cards, though, so I'll end my analysis here.

Ezzie said...

I can't believe that people are blaming the makers of a product. They're not responsible for the parents' inability to keep their children in check.

Anonymous said...

You also were into nintendo? how old are you?

Pragmatician said...

This is fast becoming my favorite blog.
I can't believe that kids forcing parents to buy cards is an argument; these same bratty kids would set their sights on something else if there were no more cards to collect.
And who said educational and profitable can’t live side by side?
Any of you ever bought an Artscroll sefer or book, not so cheap.

Pragmatician said...

Jack Davidof-I'm afraid you got it all wrong, it has nothing to do with appreciation of anything or anyone it has all to do with what's the current hype.
Ask any of those kids to identify the Godol on a card a year later
...

StepIma said...

It would be interesting to set up a spreadsheet, or a Venn diagram (ooh - remember those?) showing how many of the kids who are displaying truly rapacious behavior when it comes to their need for collecting the cards (and the parents who cosset them)... also collect Pokemon cards. Then weigh those against the group of kids who collect MagicTheGathering cards, though I think those are different since there's a gaming aspect (like Dungeons & Dragons) (I know, I'm dating myself) involved.

I feel bad for good-hearted parents who are buying the gedolim cards only because they are pictures of gedolim, and are missing the cards-as-collectibles cult that is the hot thing in toys right now. But I have a hard time believing that the kids are quite so naive.

Still, it's better to have your kids collecting and getting jazzed up on gedolim cards (and some of them do actually take time to read the "stats" - heck, they do with the pink monsters, why wouldn't they with anyone else), then on pikachu and yu-gi-oh and whoever comes down the pike next...

Anonymous said...

I was at a wedding, when a cute yeshivah boy in peyos turned to his friend and said "I heard #44 is going to be mesader kiddushin"

Charlie Hall said...

If people think he is charging too much, they can

1) Not buy the cards

2) Start their own competing line

The manufacturer of the cards has to make a living, pay his mortgage, pay his own kids yeshiva tuition, etc. Why should we begrudge him success? In fact, why should we begrudge anyone success?

Anonymous said...

"Any of you ever bought an Artscroll sefer or book, not so cheap."

I would like to comment on that. Actually I think the same would be re many/most other seforim as well.

Although I don't always agree with Artscroll (I am not a knee-jerk Artscroll defender) and maybe at one time thought along those lines, as well as definitely liking a bargain, it was pointed out to me by someone who is not in the typical right-wing mold (let's call him R. Benjamin), that, if you look at prices of general non-Jewish books - e.g. similar serious hard-cover works, actually seforim are usually cheaper and/or significantly so. If you compare scholarly seforim to scholarly works published by university presses, you will see an even greater difference. The University press books often carry very high price tags. Some seforim, written by people who are the religious equivalent of professors (like professors of talmud or halacha, to use general terminology), are priced greatly lower. Perhaps a separate post can be devoted to this by someone (not necessarily on this site). Perhaps we should actually be thankful to (at least some) Jewish publishers for their (relatively) low prices.

Pragmatician said...

It's true I never thought to compare the prices with similar works (limited target audiences), I'm actually a big artscroll fan, I was just pointing out that artscroll provides a great service to the Jewish people, it's educational and valuable, but therefore not necessarily free.

Anonymous said...

big difference between cards and chicken being raised.

The cards are a commodity and anyone can manufacture and sell them with limited barriers to entry.

Kosher chicken is, at best, an oligopolistic market, and, in some locations, a monopolistic one (we're almost 100% empire in our neighborhood). That the kosher chicken purveyors are utilizing their oligopolistic or monopolistic market share to price gouge right before chagim is not only not halakhic, but is also illegal. NY state has investigated this in the past.

Anonymous said...

We never bought our kids Gdolim cards. However, I see nothing wrong with pictures of Gdolim in one's house, especially those Gdolim who have had the most impact on you.