Friday, September 12, 2008


I see that some arayot are to be actively fought (i.e. bike lanes in Williamsburg that might bring non-tzniutly dressed bike riders through a neighborhood), while other, far more serious, arayot are to be tolerated/covered up/protected (i.e. molestation of children, the NY Post, and here ). I'm so disgusted. Want to read more, see Rabbi Horowitz, Gil Student, the Wolf, and ProfK. The Wolf also has a number of links.

I am going to stay out of this conversation and let the other bloggers comment. You can't help someone who won't help themselves. Here you have an entire community that not only won't help, but wants to keep others from helping. The foundation could be caving in, but these people are painting their walls. Foolish!


Larry Lennhoff said...

I think you mean "I'm so disgusted." not "I'm so disgusting." IMHO, anyway. Did you get my email?

rosie said...

I read recently about rabbonim paskening on giraffe milk that it is kosher. How useful! Rabbonim protect our children from concerts, provide them with bug free veggies, but could care less about the obvious problems in the frum world.
Lets name a few:
1)many families cannot afford chinuch
2)children in yeshiva are more at risk for molestation than children in public school
3)a real chillul Hashem has occured over Kosher meat
4)20% of women in some sectors of the frum community will either marry late or chas v'sholem not at all
I have not heard rabbonim in my community addressing these situations. Possibly some of these situations are dealt with in some communities but it seems to me that the rabbonim are more likely to protect us from infested broccoli.
At this point it is up to each family to make decisions not based on what the next fool is doing but based on what is best for that family. While doctors need to keep up with trends in medicine, do rabbonim keep up with trends in the frum community? Unless they use the internet or read Jewish periodicals, do they even know what is going on? Do they know about Jewish gambling, Jewish internet porn addiction, and Jewish adultery? Do those who are aware ever try to make a statement, gather people to work on the issue, or try to learn more about the issues? Do they really know what makes off the derech kids?
Unless your LOR is an enlightened activist, my friends it is up to you.

Orthonomics said...

Larry-Thanks. I was writing and cooking at the same time.

I got your email and loved the article. Expect a post when I'm less tired.


Lion of Zion said...


"You can't help someone who won't help themselves."

it sounds like you are speaking here as an outsider? i know you are anonymous, but wherever you live, have the schools properly addressed the issue?

i know that where i live i'm also tempted to speak as an outsider, considering that i live in the MO world and most of the headlines have been about the RW world. but the (scary) truth is that i have no idea if my schools are any better protected.

שבוע טוב

Anonymous said...

I have heard that there is a policy in our MO school (we're new and I haven't verified it) that prohibits yichud between students and teachers/administrators. This is a step in the right direction. A simple measure that could prevent a good measure, though obviously not all, abuse in schools.

Also, "I", I'd be curious to know the facts behind the statement that kids are more likely to be molested in Yeshivas than in public schools. It seems we hear all the time in the news about public school molestation. Or maybe the fact that we hear about it means it is less likely to be tolerated and therefore less likely to happen.

Orthonomics said...

Lion of Zion-I do believe some of the kids in some of our local schools are better protected because of background checks and fingerprinting. But, the truth is I'm not sure if we are that much better protected should an abuser rise from the ranks. I really don't know.

The reason I spoke as an outsider is because no one here is protesting tznius issues while having a known molestation problem.

Anonymous said...

The mistake that Dov Hikind made was in hiring a Frum person to do the investigations. He should have a hired a non-jew, someone who could not be bullied or pressured by the community. I used to run a high school for at risk teens, when we suspected abuse we would call several poskim who would give us the go ahead to call CPS. I have also involved the police department and the DA's when necessary, always with das torah not only giving us the go ahead, but encouraging us to do so.

Orthonomics said...

Thinking-You are absolutely correct. I know other bloggers are disappointed with R. Benzion Twerski. I am not one of those people. I doubt many of us could walk in his shoes are survive. Outside involvement is a must.

Anonymous said...

SL- Let me clarify, I am not disappointed with R Twerski, he never had a chance. I am disappointed that an attempt was even made to handle this "internally" when history has shown us that we rarely get it right.

Orthonomics said...

I never sensed any disappointment from you. But I know others are disappointed.

I agree 100%. He never had a chance in a society where people dare get the children of high profile people involved.

Anonymous said...

I think he damaged the cause which was not set up practically to begin with. He shouldn't have stepped in without the commitment to stay in. I could have read him the fairytale (with all the requisite violence that the classic Grimm tales would have) that was to unfold for him, so why was he caught by surprise. A MO psychologist would be the best choice. Someone who is familiar with the ultra Orthodox world and the world of the Chasidim, but moves in the secular world and is comfortable walking the straight line from a to b. Reality is that anyone within Ultra Orthodoxy is not used to walking the straight line and I don't mean that they are all dishonest, but rather not completely professional and do not look ahead to the big picture without getting caught up too much with the mores of their community and the demands of the "Daas Torah" cult. He shouldn't have been asked, he shouldn't have taken it on, it shouldn't have been set up this way to begin with.

Anonymous said...

About Louis Kestenbaum - A teenage girl has filed a $50 million lawsuit against a New York billionaire, saying he sexually abused her when she was 14.

Louis Kestenbaum"s attorney says the allegations are false and motivated by money. Kestenbaum is also the CEO of Fortis properties and the ODA a goverment funded organisation in the williamsburg section of Brooklyn NY

The girl, now 17, claims Louis Kestenbaum invited her to his Florida mansion in 2005 to perform a massage for $300. The lawsuit, filed in federal court, claims he demanded she remove her clothes, then sexually assaulted her.

The girl, her father and stepmother are seeking more than $50 million.

JOEL KESTENBAUM a son of Louis Kestenbaum said " The family is in shock " but had no comments when asked.