Monday, July 31, 2006

Restaurants, the Nine Days, Fast Days, and Va'adim

Across the county, there are a number of va'adim that only grant hashgacha on the condition that the restaurant either close on fast days or stop providing sit down service, and that meat restaurants close during the 9 Nine Days days completely unless they can provide a vegetarian menu to replace their regular menu.

I've always felt a great deal of discomfort with such policies. For starters, the restaurant business (kal v'chomer the kosher restaurant business) is probably one of the toughest businesses to succeed in. And, I think that these kosher establishments add a certain amount of life to a community. Why should we make it even more difficult to succeed in this business by taking away opportunities for business?

Each restaurant is different and serves a different clientele and has different needs. Certain restrains conduct most of their business during evening hours; other restrains during breakfast hours. Some restrains have a clientele that is mostly frum; and, there are a few restrains out there with a mixed clientele of kosher-keeping Jews, non-Jews, and Jews who desire a particular cuisine.

So a few days ago, my husband comes home with something interesting to share with me. His minyan learns halachot and teshuvot daily and he knew that I would be very interesting in teshuvah of Chacham Ovadia Yosef regarding restaurants remaining open and even serving meat to other Jews during the 9 days (actually 8 days, as some Sephardim eat meat on Rosh Chodesh Av).

Rav Ovadia gives his psak that restaurants are absolutely allowed to remain open, and are even allowed to serve meat to Jews. Rav Ovadia states that one need not worry about placing a stumbling block when serving meat during this time, as there are heterim for certain people to eat meat during the 9 days is well established in halacha: sickly persons, tired persons, and more. However, Rav Ovadia does say that first one eats fish, then chicken, and only then meat. Interestingly enough, I am told that in Baghdad (even fairly recently) the Jews ate chicken during the nine days and the prohibition against meat was applied strictly.

The "bottom line" of the teshuvah is that the first priority is the proprietor's parnasah. I think it is important to remember that other people in our own communities also rely on the (usually hourly) wages they receive from certain restrains, whether they be mashgichim or waiters.

Ultimately, I believe that a proprietor will do what is best for their business. Even if a Va'ad allows a meat restaurant to stay open during the Nine Days without an alternative menu, some restaurants will still choose to close because the costs of staying open cannot be justified by the loss of business. Other owners will serve a vegetarian menu. And, still, other restaurants (especially those with a strong non-Jewish clientele or a strong business lunch and dinner clientele) will stay open.

Note: I'd be curious to hear of teshuvot saying the opposite: the a kosher meat resturant must close during the Nine Days or during fast days, at least to sit down service. Obviously Rav Ovadia is not the only posek in town. However, the teshuva was of interest to me, because it affirmed by thought process about protecting the proprietor within the confines of halacha.

Hat Tip: Ariella of Kallah Magazine whose post prompted my post.

14 comments:

mother in israel said...

Well, in at least one town in Israel, the ashkenazi chief rabbi refused to give a Pesach hechsher to any restaurant serving kitniyot. . .

Orthonomics said...

MominIsrael-Since it the week of Tisha B'Av, I will refrain from expressing my opinion!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the hat tip. Here the local bagel store put up a sign that they will be open Tisha B'Av afternoon (later than their normal hours as they are not usually open much beyond a late lunchtime) for takeout only. This would make sense for people who want to pick up bagels for after the fast. I wonder if they were restricted by the rav hamachsir from being open for eat in. Theoretically, children and their nannies could be sent over to eat lunch there.

Orthonomics said...

I think it is more than theorectical. I rarely stop in our local pizza joint. But, the few times I have been there for lunch, I've noted that I am one of the only mothers there.

I imagine pizza shops thrive on Nanny/Children business during the lunch hours (as well as pizza orders from schools). Why take away this type of business?

StepIma said...

I'd never heard of restaurants not getting a hashgacha under those circumstances -- and it seems unduly harsh to the proprietors, especially when there's nothing halachically wrong with cooking or serving food to people who are allowed to eat it.

My birthday always falls within the 9 days, and last year my boyfriend (now fiancé) actually made a siyyum so he could take me out to my favorite restaurant, since he knows what a carnivore I am (!!!) It was a bit strange being among the only people there who were eating meat -- but there was no question that it was "kosher"... - I kept hoping it would happen again this year, but no such luck :)

The failure rate for restaurants is something like 85% - I don't think it's right for a vaad to dictate somehing that could so adversely affect a person's livelihood... and especially in communities where there is a non-Jewish presence who also potentially make up the restaurant's customer base.

Charlie Hall said...

There are plenty of reasons to eat meat during the 9 days, some of them mentioned. My problem is the opposite one: The kosher cafeteria where I work had no pareve entrees, only meat, on Rosh Chodesh Av! The frum crowd here was up in arms.

Larry Lennhoff said...

FWIW the Mendy's meat deli in Grand Central Station is open and serving meat during the 9 days. They are certified by the OU.

Anonymous said...

RE Mendy's, there is Mendy's dairy takeout in the stall right next door, so they have a full nine days menu available if you step five feet to the right. I had the grilled veggie panini today and boy was it good.

Orthonomics said...

CharlieHall-That is just a bad business decision.

LarryLenhoff-I believe that the OU does not do a whole lot more than supervise Kashrut. Any downtown resturant would be writing their ticket to the grave if they agreed to go under supervision that dictated mandatory times off.

Orthonomics said...

P.S. (On Larry's note): Competition in Kashrut tends to keep Va'adim from enacting things that are beyond the letter of the law. But, plenty of communities have only one "real" choice. Even if a business chooses another heksher and the community accepts it, the resturant may well be banned from catering in shuls and schools, which is where the proprietors make their bigger bucks.

Anonymous said...

RHS once mentioned that RAYH Kook ZTL allowed fleishig restaurants in TA to be open during The Nine Days so that there would be a choice of kosher restaurants for some who might RL might not choose otherwise.

Anonymous said...

You fail to realize something. These Kashrus Organizations are mafia-like in their demands and have little concern for Hilchos bein Adam L'Chavero.

cool yiddishe mama said...

I don't know about any of you but I just can't do "pareves" in a fleishig place anyway. If I am to become "fleishig", I need to have some actual meat attached to it. I'm too concerned with the ta'am still being on the grill when I'm eating that veggie burger.

One place in my town (at one time, not sure about now) was allowed to serve chicken, for carry-out only during the Nine Days. However, we don't have the problem here of non-Jews being attracted to the kosher restaurants.

You are right about how the "kosher nostra" in each town makes the rules. The meat places are not allowed to order from the supplier direct, such as Postville. They need to order from one or all of the butcher shops, who gives a surcharge. The overhead on a fleishig place here is horrible.

Anonymous said...

I live in a community in which basically all food vendors, be they restaurants, caterers, groceries, or whatever, either live or die under our Vaad. Sometimes a new place will crop up with a different heksher, and sooner, rather than later, they go out of business. Just recently, I visited a lovely looking restaurant that is just openning to inquire about their heksher. No, the owner said, they won't be under this particular Vaad, because "he does things they wouldn't like". Plus, he wasn't wearing a yarmulke. That's enough reason for me not to eat there!
Personally, I look forward every year, not to the 9 Days, but to the pareve menu that the Chinese establishments offer. I wish they had them all year. There is a vegetarian Chinese place nearby, but it has one of those "questionable" hekshers.
When my kids were toddlers their babysitter vastly preferred meeting up with her babysitter friends in our local pizza shop. I was glad, it erased any problems about her cooking in my kitchen. So it became the Caribbean babysitter hangout.