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Monday, October 18, 2010

Guest Post: Some Info on a Locale and a Guessing Game

The following post was sent to me from a reader who plans to self-identify. It is about a city the reader believes would be of interest to some of the Orthodox population. To keep it fun, the city is not being identified for now so readers can make their best guesses. Post follows (no edits, no commentary). Add your comments as the writer has asked a series of questions.

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Dear Orthonomics,

I am a young Balabos in a small outlying Jewish community struggling to overcome stability issues related to its small size -- I like to say we have 'barely one of everything' (1 each of Orthodox, Reform, Conservative and Chabad shuls, one Orthodox dayschool, 1 community Hebrew dayschool, 1 butcher, 1 baker, 1 Mikva, a small outreach Kollel, etc...)

Our community (and another similar one relatively nearby) is situated in a unique economic, political and institutional environment that should enable it to attract young Orthodox families facing all the major challenges ('crises') highlighted by your blog, namely the high cost of tuition, the high cost of living in Jewish areas, the poor economy, and the high cost of healthcare and college for large families.

Tuition:
*We are in one of the few jurisdictions where the local government pays a large portion (~$4000/year 'voucher') of the costs of (secular) education for private schools.
We are in one of the few jurisdictions where tuition at non-profit private schools is fully tax-deductible as a charitable contribution.
*Therefore, full Jewish daychool tuition is ~$7000/student/year (pre-deduction) and even lower on an after-tax basis.
*Additionally, tuition subsidies are made at the local Jewish Community Council level (schools actually get the money when families are granted subsidies). Guidelines suggest that families grossing under $100,000/year should pay under $12,000/year in total tuition.

Cost of Living and related issues:
*Reasonable (not low) cost of living and excellent social programs and policies for large families:
4-bedroom housing within walking distance of a synagogue (and ~30 minutes commute from downtown) starting at $350,000
*Reasonable (not-low) total tax burden for a middle class family.
*Very, very cheap decent healthcare (not tied to employer).
1-year child leave benefits (shareable between parents) including having your job held for you and receiving unemployment benefits during your time off.
*Very cheap, high-quality local colleges; decent public schools (if that matters).

Additionally non-Jewish factors:
*Extremely safe, clean and family-friendly city of about a million people, close to beautiful national parks.
*Local economy is pretty good given global situation; decent job market for white collar professionals and skilled trades.
*Family-friendly corporate environment (i.e. shorter/earlier working days than most places, typically high number of vacation days, etc...)

Additional Jewish factors:
*As a matter of reference, our OU-affiliated Orthodox synagogue is led by a seasoned an well-respected Rabbi of impressive scholarship and lineage. The Judaic Head of the Torah u'Mesorah-affiliated daychool is a Chofetz Chaim graduate. The outreach Kollel Rabbis are Lakewood/Gateshead educated.
*Good cooperation across spectrum of Jewish institutions; Orthodox-friendly community politics (aside from tuition subsidies, the mikva and kashrut certification is community-funded but Orthodox-administered).
*A small community allows for enormous lay participation -- lots of opportunities to take on leadership positions, Daven from the Ammud, Lein, teach your own class, etc...

Of course living in a small community has its downsides:
*No Eiruv.
*No kosher restaurants beyond the JCC cafeteria.
*The school is mixed-gender. Our community does not have a high school, although that could easily change if there were sufficient students (the close similar community mentioned above has one). Nearest boys-only Yeshiva (high school) is a 13-hour drive/$200 return flight away.
*Kosher meat, cheese and specialty products are expensive at local institutions (improving); you may need to bulk order from elsewhere.
*You are a multi-day drive/4-hour $500 return flight from any of the large Jewish centers.
The biggest issue is the stability issue related to the sustainability of small community size. The Orthodox dayschool currently has 43 children and survives on elbow grease, miracles and a few large donors. The synagogue has 100 member families (of which only 20 or so are observant). Twenty years ago (when I was growing up) the school had twice as many students and the synagogue at least 50% more families (although I would still have classified the city as having 'barely one of everything').

I think that the declining community size has been related to the general trend often-discussed on Orthonomics: the flight to large communities with many top-notch institutions over the recent boom years. We have always been a transient city with young families moving in, staying a while, and then leaving for larger Jewish centers as the kids grew older and they outgrew available institutions. The difference is that over the last few years families have been leaving earlier and have been less likely to consider a city like ours in the first place.

Now that the boom is over, and the sustainability of affordable top-notch institutions in major Jewish centers is seriously in question, there is a hope that we are in a unique position to attract a significant number of families looking for relief from the various Jewish crises. There has been discussion of a concentrated effort to actively recruit Jews to our city based on these factors.

I'm curious to hear Orthonomics readers' opinions:
*Would consider moving to such a city?
*If not, what's the sticking point?
*Given the current amenities, how long do you you think you would stay?
*What demographic do you think would consider moving here?


Any advice on how to structure a recruitment campaign.
*What are our chances of success?

I would appreciate it if you could post this to your blog.
Please feel free to email me if you have any questions you would like answered before you post.

66 comments:

Anonymous Toolshed said...

I'm guessing it's somewhere in Canada (Edmonton? Winninpeg? Calgary?). I'm guessing such because I can't think that anywhere in the US the tuition cost would be tax deductible or would the local government pay for part of the tuition.

It certainly makes sense for anyone living on the economic edge to consider. If indeed it is Canada, i don't know if there are any immigration issues for US citizens. However, considering what I've seen here and on other blogs, the only way a chump living in Teaneck would consider this place would be if a "critical mass" would get up and simulatenously move. I guess this means, never.

Staying Afloat said...

Aside from any hashkafic issues re. the school, no eiruv is a deal-breaker for me. In a community of houses, not apartments, I like to be able to leave my house on Shabbos- including the ability to educate my kids about shul when my husband can't take them for the whole time.

So that would stop me immediately, before anyhting else. Which is a problem, because it eliminates a lot of young families, when you're already losing the older ones because of the lack of high schools.

Ezzie said...

As someone who would seriously consider many small (albeit not tiny) Orthodox communities:

Lack of an eiruv is a very big one, since it makes it very difficult to take my kids anywhere on Shabbos.

Sounds like it's Winnipeg, and I'd rather stay in the USA.

I'd want to go with enough young couples that - even if it's a risk - I'd have the feeling that at least some would stick it out as the community grew.

I'd wonder if it's too small to really be confident in the stability of the school and the quality of it.

Anonymous said...

Poster: When you say that tuition is tax deductible, are you referring to a national tax? a state or provincial or other local tax? or both?

Arthur said...

If someone was going to leave and pack up and go and start to build a Jewish community, why not do it in Israel?

ProfK said...

The "flavor" of this community says temporary, only for the short term until children get older, and yet no mention of apartments, only houses for sale. Agree that this sounds Canadian rather than in the US. Also agree that no eruv would be a deal breaker for those families with younger kids. They also need to keep in mind with what communities are they competing. Plenty of communities in the US where housing is half of what they are mentioning (leaving money to put towards the other items mentioned as being cheaper), where apartments and an eruv are available, where a high school is available or in fairly close proximity.

Anonymous said...

What has prevented an eruv thus far?

elanit said...

No eruv is fixable. Our rabbi in DC has helped many communities build a lasting eruv. It should not be a deterrent to living outside of NY/NJ.

I'm a fan of small communities, but I would suspect that no high school would be difficult, though with a critical mass, anything is possible. And these days, in order for things to drastically change the current situation, that is what is needed: critical mass and folks being creative, thinking outside the box, and building it on their own.

Anonymous said...

If you are already willing to move "way out there" I'd sooner move to a place like Detroit where it is dirt cheap ($150,000 for house), established shuls, eruv, mikvah....I'd just need to bring my own job with me.

efrex said...

I'm almost 10 years away from worrying about high schools for my children, so that's not a major concern. I grew up with no eruv, so even that's not a significant issue.

For me, the red flag is housing, housing, housing. $350k is cheaper than many Teaneck homes, but still significantly more than any moderate-income frum family should be paying. Even assuming that the community is able to keep tuition costs down (and I am extremely loath to take community funds), I don't see this community as being affordable, particularly considering the additional expenses of kosher living.

Anonymous said...

Lots of great comments but 2 points stick out to me
1) Eruv
2) as Efrex said: cost of housing. That's decently higher than most of the US. You can easily buy a nice 5/3 in a gated community in Atlanta for 350.

Beyond that, it sounds like a nice place but an "okay" job market probably won't convince most people to move.

Anonymous said...

Probably would not consider. Lack of eruv and housing is not cheap.

Perhaps a website wih lists & descriptions of small Orthodox communities would be valuable.

Anonymous said...

Efrex: Apart from tuition, "kosher living" really is not so much more expensive unless you eat beef 3 times a day. I am so tired of hearing about how much more expensive it is to be frum (apart from tuition). If you eat a normal diet, the differential between kosher and non-kosher should be a miniscule portion of any family's budget.

Mark said...

Under Federal Tax Law, tuition is not deductible, therefore the community described is outside of the USA. Since we are (most of us in BC anyway) only US citizens, moving there would pose certain difficulties (attaining citizenship, distance from family, somewhat different culture, etc).

Mark said...

Anon 9:53am - Apart from tuition, "kosher living" really is not so much more expensive unless you eat beef 3 times a day. I am so tired of hearing about how much more expensive it is to be frum (apart from tuition). If you eat a normal diet, the differential between kosher and non-kosher should be a miniscule portion of any family's budget.

This is correct. When eating a normal diet, every day of the week, with maybe one special meal on Shabbat, the only kosher things that are particularly more expensive are cheese and meat.

I think a big part of the problem of very high food bills for kosher observers is overdoing the "fancy foods" both during the week and on Shabbat. In my house, we buy what is on sale and pan our menu around those items, we don't plan our menu and then go shopping for the items we "need".

Mark said...

Oh, I forgot to mention ... sounds a lot like Calgary to me. So that's my guess.

Anonymous said...

Mark: You are correct. People also forget that even non-jews and jews who don't keep kosher like to splurge on a nice meal and some extras on the weekends, so for the average family, there should not be much of a differential, if at all.

JS said...

Definitely sounds like Canada. I think the main deal breaker would be the lack of eruv.

In terms of marketing the community, I wouldn't bother marketing to people in the NY/NJ area. It's just a waste of time. They expect a community to have every single amenity and don't think it's worthwhile to move anywhere else, even though objectively many of them would be far better off if they moved out of their expensive communities.

alpidarkomama said...

Nope, wouldn't live there. Housing too expensive (we bought a 3 bed/2 ba + 2 bonus rooms for $215K; 3-minute walk to shul). Tuition here is a "reasonable" $7,500. We homeschool, but it's always nice to have an option. Our taxes are low. College is free to good students. Beautiful location. And an eruv!

Anonymous said...

I don't think its Canada. There are a few states that permit assistance for the secular component of parochial schools and a a handful that allow tax dedctions for private school tuition.

JLan said...

alpidarkomama- sounds like you should be advertising your community as well. Where are you?

WesternNation said...

I am the original author and will try and speak to the points raised so far.

Calgary, Alberta, Canada it is (with Edmonton as the similar nearby community with a high school).

We recognize that the lack of an Eiruv is a major for young families (it's been in planning stages for 30 years). Unfortunately, geography (a large community footprint plus a lake right next to the shul) and infrastructure (not a lot of overhead lines) make construction difficult and the cost/benefit for existing inhabitants not worth it. We are looking into building a small Eiruv in a section that has overhead lines (would not include the Shul).

Regarding housing, there are townhouse/apartment rentals close to the shul, but I am not in the market, so I can't speak to the pricing. Housing used to be much cheaper but has run up over the last few years along with the economy (which I probably undersold in my original post). Unfortunately, the Shul was built in what ended up being one of the most expensive parts of town and is directly surrounded my multi-million dollar houses. With regards to comparisons to half-priced homes in Detroit or equal-priced gated communities elsewhere, Calgary is extremely safe and clean so in some respects you get what you pay for.

Tax deductibility is at the Federal and Provincial income tax level as a charitable contribution.

Immigration issues for professionals should be minimal (engineers, accountants, nurses, etc. should be covered under NAFTA). Biggest issue is employment authorization for nonprofessional spouses.

Another issue nobody has brought up is healthcare. I somewhat underplayed it in my original post because I didn't want 'Canada' to be so glaring. I don't know how narrow the band of folks is for which healthcare is neither government- nor employer-funded

Thanks for your feedback, looking forward to more
Yannai Segal

Anonymous said...

Am I the only one who thinks there could be a lot of advantages to living somewhere without the pollution, crowds, traffic, long commutes, and excess materialism (not to mention the accents) that are part of life in the NY/NJ metro region? If this community lacks those attributes, that could be a big selling point.

Abba's Rantings said...

lack of a jewish high school would be the deal breaker. i don't like the idea of shipping off 13-year-olds.

i would also prefer a more MO-type rabbinic leadership than what you described. (lakewood/gateshead is not my flavor and who cares that the rav is hails from impressive lineage?)

barring other objections, i don't see lack of eruv as a problem (mentioned above). i grew up in brooklyn, where a few hundred thousand jews live just fine without a communal eruv.

Abba said...

ANON:

"There are a few states that permit assistance for the secular component of parochial schools and a a handful that allow tax dedctions for private school tuition."

could someone elaborate on this?

ANON:

"Am I the only one who thinks there could be a lot of advantages to living somewhere without the pollution, crowds, traffic, long commutes, and excess materialism (not to mention the accents) that are part of life in the NY/NJ metro region?"

you're not the only one who thinks this way, but there are OOT communities without the pollution, etc. that are cheaper and have a stronger jewish infrastructure

Mordechai Y. Scher said...

A friend of mine, Rav Moshe Shulman, was rav in Calgary and we visited several times. As North American cities go, it is much nicer physically and geographically than almost anything in the US. Even back then, the Jewish community was really pleasant and easy to be with. Something Mr. Segal didn't mention is the astounding inspiring beauty of Hashem's creation just outside of town. Here one has a big city, with the Canadian Rockies and other wonders available just a very short drive from home. For those who appreciate the great outdoors, it is all available in Alberta, and much nicer than almost any decent Jewish community in the US has available. For a household like mine, that would be a major draw. (That's why I lived in Vancouver at one time.) My wife and I have backpacked in that area, and I can't say enough about the awe inspiring beauty available for an easy drive along the Icefield Highway. And, for those of us who've lived in places like Houston and D/FW, the Stampede is nothing to sneeze at. ;-)

rosie said...

My guess is that he is posting from Berlin, Germany.

ProfK said...

Abba's Rantings,
Hate to inject gender, but regarding an eruv it's cogent to the discussion. You say "i grew up in brooklyn, where a few hundred thousand jews live just fine without a communal eruv." Make that a few hundred thousand MALE adult Jews and you might have a point. For the mothers of young children Shabbos without an eruv represents basically being locked up in the house: no shul, no visiting friends, no invites for meals.

Since the Calgary community seems to be looking for exactly the demographic that would have mothers with young kids, that lack of an eruv would be a stumbling block for many.

Abba's Rantings said...

Mordechai:

"Something Mr. Segal didn't mention is the astounding inspiring beauty of Hashem's creation just outside of town."

another thing he didn't mention is how cold it gets there.

vancouver and houston too? where haven't you lived?

Abba's Rantings said...

PROFK:

my wife and i used the brooklyn eruvin, so you don't have to tell me about their benefit. (and just for the record, i was the one who always took my son to shul when he was a baby.) but the point still stands that a few hundred thousand male AND female frum jews live in brooklyn without a problem.

Anonymous said...

A prior comment made mention to Detroit. So, I'll just add, Detroit is home to ...

* A sizable frum community

* Multiple school options (more elementary schools than high school though), and tuition far cheaper than in some of the bigger frum cities

* Lots of shuls, multiple kollels, and lots of ongoing shiurim and programs

* Multiple mikvaos (including a beautiful newly built one)

* Several kosher restaurants

* Really cheap housing (you can easily find a nice 4 bedroom with garage basement and back yard for under $200K, and there are cheaper options too)

* Yes, there is an eruv

The big gotcha here is that jobs are scarce - unemployment in MI is terrible. But, depending on what you do or want to do, living in the Detroit area can provide huge financial savings.

Anonymous said...

This place sounds very Midwestern to me for some reason. St. Louis has an eruv, kosher food, high schools, etc. so I'm guessing Kansas City? My other thought was perhaps Indianapolis.

rosie said...

Louisville, Ky has a small day school with probably under 100 kids, no high school, one of each type of congregation, a restaurant in the JCC but not elsewhere, kosher products including meat available at Kroger, and cheap housing near the Orthodox shul. I can't imagine though, how any US community would have vouchers or allow tuition to be legally tax deductible. Health insurance is cheaper in some states than in others as we all well know but I don't think that health care is as cheap anywhere in America as it is in countries with socialized medicine.
The closest city to Louisville with high school yeshivas is probably Cincinnati but Louisville is centrally located so that they are a 6 hour drive from Detroit, Pittsburgh, or Chicago. Even if Louisville would be someone's choice of a community to live in, it doesn't seem like the answer to the poster's guessing game.

rosie said...

correction: Louisville has 2 each of Conservative and reform congregations.

rosie said...

One year of child care leave is European or possibly Denmark, Sweden, or maybe South Africa.

Anonymous said...

Umm, the OP already revealed that the location is Calgary Canada, you can stop guessing now.

rosie said...

I somehow missed his post.
http://www.lisproject.org/publications/parentwork/parent-leave-details.pdf
lists Canada as having generous child care leave.

efrex said...

Yannai: Thanks for continuing the conversation.

From my extremely limited experience, healthcare is not a major determining factor for most middle-to-upper-middle-income professionals in the US, as most employers at that level provide reasonable health care.

From my previous post, please strike out "Kosher" and replace with "traditional Jewish." Yes, kosher dining does not require breaking the bank (although even holding down meat consumption to a basic shabbat chicken is no small change), but the expected additional costs (shul membership & upkeep, summer camp - a requirement for two-income households, etc) mean that, at least in my case, I believe that housing prices need to significantly lower than the similarly-incomed non-Jew can afford.

There's also a significant culture change between the U.S. and Canada, and I think it would be difficult for your community to really attract many Americans on the basis of your description.

Abba's Rantings said...

EFREX:

putting aside francophone quebec (whose jewish community from what i understand is declining?), what real cultural differences are there between the US and canada?

Anonymous said...

Efrex: Believe it or not, non-jews pay just as much for their churches, congregations, although often it is not in the form of dues, and child care and camp costs have nothing to do with religious affiliation. Plenty of non-jews, atheists, seculars, etc. have kids and two working parents, so please stop saying you have some special burden.

Mark said...

Mordechai Y. Scher - For those who appreciate the great outdoors

I thought that has been declared assur already....

... you might swallow a bug.
... you might see a woman in a tank top (in the summer at least).
... you might miss mincha with a minyan.
... etc.

:-(

efrex said...

Anonymous: I really don't want to derail this thread any further, but my point was not the expense of Jewish camp vs. non-Jewish, but the expense of Jewish camp ON TOP of Jewish day school tuition. In addition, in my neighborhood at least, there are a number of non-Jewish community summer programs that are significantly cheaper than day camp. Raising a Jewish family in accordance with the currently accepted Orthodox societal norms (full-time religious school from pre-school through high school + religious summer programs) is a substantially more expensive proposition than the non-Jewish one, even for identically sized families. I simply don't see that as being really disputable, at least from my experience. I'm not whining, merely pointing out that, with that as a consideration, being fiscally responsible means that I would need to find a house significantly cheaper than my income level would otherwise indicate.

rosie said...

anon, there are some very impressive churches out there with huge buildings and lots of activities. How do they do it without charging dues? I realize that some religions tithe to their churches but how is that different than dues except that it is voluntary and based on income? Most likely there are plenty of donors in churches as well but no religion is cheap.

Bob Miller said...

It was cute to start this guessing game, but every individual decision to relocate (or not) needs a solid basis in fact directly relevant to the person or family involved, not some laundry list of pros or cons.

Bara said...

We live in Denver, CO and we are considered a small but vibrant jewish community. At first I thought the poster was from Denver. We do have an Eruv though a big plus in my book. Great outdoors here.

Abba's Rantings said...

BARA:

i actually know of someone who just moved from to denver from teaneck, but my understanding is that the cost of living (jewish and general) there is not much cheaper?

rosie said...

I would say that I mentioned Berlin, Germany because it is a growing Jewish community.

Mordechai Y. Scher said...

Abba: When I was recruited to teach, we left Israel for Houston. Then I was recruited up to Vancouver, which seemed like a good challenge since I had an old friend/colleague there and one in Calgary. Then we moved for my wife's career needs to Massachusetts, and then to our present location. Still have our eyes on the Golan or northern Galil for our return.

Selena said...

Denver is much cheaper. Full tuition for elementary school is 12K or less, and you can get a nice 4 bedroom house for 350K. Also, property taxes are super low, as well as state income tax.

Avi said...

It's worth factoring travel costs (both in dollars and extra days off for travel time) if you're considering moving far away from family and intend to visit once or twice a year. Depending on individual circumstances, this could negate some of the savings.

I was also astonished to find how much more expensive kosher staples were in areas with smaller Jewish communities. I expected there to be a difference, but 3x? The same bottle of Kedem grape juice that costs $3 at Costco (or on sale at Stop & Shop) in Northern NJ was over $9 in two different supermarkets on the West coast and in the midwest. Cheese and prepared/packaged food were merely twice as expensive. True, these items only represents a portion of a Jewish family's food outlay, but I was pretty taken aback nonetheless.

Avi said...

To the poster's original point, why isn't Calgary growing?

--No specific economic draw. People don't move simply to move, they move because of jobs.
--No eruv. Major downer for today's young families who grew up with an eruv.
--No high school. If the eruv didn't get you, this will.
--Location. By your own admission, you're basically in the middle of nowhere, and will have to budget time and money for flights if you want to see family. Worse, it's not in the U.S. The majority of N.A. Jews live in the U.S. and you still haven't provided enough of a reason to deal with immigration issues.

Those are the main issues. But a side one is the low awareness of the cost benefits of living in Calgary. Cheap tuition, free healthcare, reasonable taxes. It sounds good, but if nobody knows about it...

Anonymous said...

@Selena

Compared to NY/NJ those may be cheap, but they are far from low on a national scale. Here in B-more full tuition for elementary is just under 10K and that's at the most expensive place in town. A decent 4 bedroom also costs 350 but I would imagine the other Jewish accouterments (food, Judaica, etc) are much cheaper due to the large community.

I'm not B-more's biggest fan, but in terms of cost, it sounds like it's less than Denver with more options.

Selena said...

True, Baltimore is comparable, and we considered moving there as well as Denver. What sold us on Denver, is we were able to buy a smaller house for 200K, right in the middle of the community. Also, the more yeshivish school is only 8500 a year, and that is where our kids go, so...

However, I think Baltimore is a great option for east coasters. We are coming from LA, so Denver is also convenient to our families (obviously this does not apply to most people.)and has great weather which was important to us wimpy Californians :)

JRKmommy said...

I thought "Calgary or Edmonton" as soon as I read the post.

We actually did consider Calgary at one point. On the plus side: absolutely incredible scenery, very friendly community, cheaper tuition. However, these were outweighed for us by the downside of being farther from family, and not having a Jewish high school. I have several friends (and some family) from Calgary. The trend seemed to be that they would either move to Toronto, or face a much higher rate of assimilation (compared to Toronto, which is lower than the American rate). The boom/bust nature of the economy could also be a concern - my husband is a doctor, and ironically things were difficult for doctors during the boom because it was harder to get affordable office space and secretaries. That said - it's tempting to think about it.

Avi said...

Baltimore is a wonderful community particularly if you are RW-Yeshivish (the MO schools are ...troubled). Kosher food costs there are particularly low. Housing pricing has increased dramatically over the last 15 years but it's still cheaper than many other areas - often by hundreds of thousands. However, wages are also much lower than other major metros, and many people are forced to commute to the DC area for available/higher paying jobs (Baltimore's economy significantly lags DC, and it's not as short or easy a commute as it looks like on the map).

Anonymous said...

This City is 100% beyond any shadow of a doubt....CALGARY!!!
Nice blog, I am a Calgarian currently living in Israel. I think the eruv issue is certainly a problem, but with Hashem's help fixable.
Otherwise there are many redeeming qualities about the City....amazingly warm and friendly people, amazing Rabbi's, clean beautiful City with a backyard in the Rockies that is one of a kind. The real issue is the schooling. But with the recruitment of 10 frum families with kids, the whole situation could change, and real Orthodox day schooling from start through grade 12 would then be realistic.
If you are looking for a change of pace from the overpopulated cold city you live in, check out Calgary, you man come to love it.

Belgravia said...

If Calgary gets an eruv and a high school, it should be a no-brainer for people with skills. The oil and gas industry provides employment opportunities. The Canadian economy as a whole has not suffered as much as the U.S. Canadians in general and the Jewish community in particular are warm and polite.

Yes, downtown ("city centre" in Canadian) is expensive. Office rents are high there and parking meters are $4/hour in the core--even on Sunday! (Of course, this is related to the good economy.)

I have spent time--and a few shabbatot--there and it is a wonderful city. While I don't know for sure, I think an eruv would not face the kind of opposition that is has in some U.S. cities. Canada is much more multi-cultural.

And to help promote Calgary, here's a link to Yannai's father's website:

http://people.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/#

aaron from L.A. said...

One very important thing nobody seems to mention: In Canada you can't deduct interest paid on a home mortgage from income taxes....unless you're paying cash,and few people do,you lose big bucks every year on this one...And by the way,Calgary is as cold as hell starting in the fall.

Arthur said...

I am going to go back to my original comment - if one wants to start, build up a community why not do this in Israel
all of the issues
Eruv
School
Cost of housing and living
are solved
Plus you are in Israel
a Win Win

Anonymous said...

I live in a small commuity 30 minutes from schools: modern and yeshivish elementary schools, modern high school, Bais Yaakov, right-wing yeshivish yeshivah. Car pools going to all schools. Houses start at $175K. No eruv. Beautiful open space and trails within one block, safe, clean. If you like kiruv, join us. Observant families starting to consider us.

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saha ra said...

Ancelotti bawa 28 pemain dalam Tur Amerika Serikat

Agen Bola indo11.com melaporkan dari -Setelah dua pekan menjalani sesi latihan di Ciudad Real Madrid, Skuad Madrid akan segera menjalani fase kedua dalam pramusim mereka dengan melakukan Tur Amerika Serikat.

Pelatih Carlo Ancelotti menyertakan 28 pemain dalam Tur Amerika yang akan memainkan empat pertandingan. Tur kali ini langsung dipimpin Presiden Madrid Florentino Perez yang juga turut serta.

Adapun pemain yang baru bergabung setelah bersitirahat usai Piala Konfederasi seperti Iker Casillas, Sergio Ramos, Arbeloa dan Marcelo juga turut serta. Jese Rodriguez yang sebelumnya tampil bersama Timnas Spanyol U-21 di Piala Dunia U-21 juga masuk dalam daftar.

Sementara itu lima pemain yang kembali berlatih pagi ini setelah melewati tes medis akan menyusul. Ancelotti juga menyertakan beberapa pemain muda seperti Tomas Mejias, Casado dan Mateos.

Setelah terbang selama 12 jam, skuad Los Blanco tiba di Los Angeles, kemarin pukul 1:30 waktu setempat.


bon tong said...

Buffon: Juventus lebih kuat, tapi

Agen Bola indo11.com melaporkan dari -Gianluigi Buffon yakin jika Juventus masih menjadi favorit untuk meraih gelar Scudetto musim 2013/14. Tapi, dia merasa persaingan perebutan gelar juara semakin berat.

Pada musim panas ini, Si Nyonya Tua memboyong tiga pemain berkelas. Yakni dua striker Carlos Tevez dan Fernando Llorente dan bek Victor Ogbonna. Meskipun merekrut pemain bagus, Buffon enggan sesumbar dan memilih tetap membumi menghadapi persaingan musim depan

"Saya kembali ke Juventus yang lebih kuat. sekarang kita mempunyai tambahan elemen dan kualitas yang luar biasa. kami mengambil langkah yang serius," kata Buffon.

"Tapi, tidak akan mudah untuk mempertahankan gelar kami. Faktanya, musim ini akan lebih sulit dibandingkan dua musim sebelumnya," sambungnya.

"Milan kompetitif meski tidak membuat pernyataan besar di pasar transfer, karena mereka sudah mendapatkan pemain yang memungkinan mereka berada di garis depan. Rekrutan terbesar Inter adalah pelatih dan mereka memiliki fondasi dari enam atau tujuh pemain muda dan penting. Mereka akan segera menemukan cara untuk menang," komentarnya soal kekuatan dua Milan.

Napoli didukung dengan skuat dan merekrut seorang pemenang seperti pelatih - Rafael Benitez. Dia seseorang yang saya hormati, profesional besar yang tahu apa yang dibutuhkan tim untuk menang."

"Fiorentina juga memboyong Beppe Rossi, yang jika dia cocok dengan Mario Gomez akan tampil dengan level internasional,"

"Tapi, fakta bahwa rival kami memperkuat skuat, ditambah dengan pendekatan Antonio Conte yang tiada henti, hanya akan membantu kami mempertahankan bola," pungkas


Source : www.indo11.com

som phors said...

Cardiff City tunjuk direktur baru

Agen Bola indo11.com melaporkan dari - Cardiff City telah mengumumkan direktur anyar, dia adalah Mehmet Dalman. Pria berkebangsaan Siprus itu bukanlah sosok yang asing bagi Cardiff City, sebelumnya Dalman duduk di jajaran kursi manajemen klub tersebut.

Dalman akan menggantikan posisi direktur sebelumnya dijabat oleh, Simon Lim. Lim sebelumnya mengundurkan diri setelah menerima jabatan sebagai direktur eksekutif Liga Premier Inggris.

“Saya sangat merasa terhormat bisa mendapatkan jabatan sebagai direktur Cardiff City,” ungkap Dalman .
“Saya sangat menikmati waktu saya sejak bergabung di jajaran manajemen pada Januari 2012 lalu dan sekarang saya menikmati kesempatan yang diterima saya sebagai direktur di Cardiff City,” tambahnya.


Source : www.indo11.com

Chhunmeng WinWin said...

Hull to sign duo

Agen Bola terpercaya indo11.com reported,Hull City A.F.C. are on the verge of completing the signing former Arsenal starlet Conor Henderson on free transfer.
Henderson, who was released by Arsenal at the end of last season, is expected to be joined by former Cambridge United, Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland player Matthew Fletcher.
The duo have impressed Hull City reserve team manager Stephen Clemence while on trial at the club, so much so that both are set to earn permanent deals after their respective goal-scoring performances on Tuesday.
“Conor Henderson is someone we’ve had in training for the last couple of weeks. He didn’t quite make the grade at Arsenal, but he’s always had a lot of potential,” he told that.
“There’s more to come from him. He scored a free-kick and played some lovely passes around the pitch so we’ve been impressed. He’s someone we’ll look to try and do something with to get him in on a permanent basis.as reported by Indo Eleven.
Source : www.indo11.com

Chhunmeng LuLu said...

Schalke official backtracks on Boateng racism claims

Agen Bola terpercaya indo11.com reported,Schalke official Peter Peters has backtracked on claims Kevin-Prince Boateng joined the club due to the racist abuse he received in Italy.
Boateng sealed a deadline-day move from Milan to Schalke – signing a four-year-contract – four years after last appearing in the German top flight.
The midfielder walked off the pitch during a mid-season friendly with Milan against Pro Patria last season after being subjected to racist chanting, and Peters – Schalke’s chief financial officer – had suggested on Monday this kind of treatment was behind the Ghana international’s return to the Bundesliga.
However, he has apologised for that statement and insisted he had interpreted the situation incorrectly,as reported by Indo Eleven.
“After consultation with our general manager Horst Heldt, my assumption has proven to be completely wrong,” he told the club’s official website.
Source : www.indo11.com