Marriage, The Most Important Factor(s)
For a change of pace, I thought I'd pose a question to my readers. I know you are out there as the Sitemeter nears 500 (yippee!). Being that I "dabble" in shidduchim and being that we have a number of single friends who come to our home and make it a warmer and happier place, the subject of dating, marriage, and what is ultimately important often comes up.
Obviously there are many important factors in marriage, but I thought it would be interesting to try to narrow them down to an easy phrase to remember, a "bottom line" factor that, if it was missing, a relationship would be near impossible.
I've come up with an idea which I will share later, but first I'd like to hear your ideas.
16 comments:
In marriage. The is probably a married people thread. I'm hoping to share the results.
for me, gotta be a sense of humor. no way my wife could tolerate me without a sense of humor.
Real answer - committment to shared values and a belief that the 'other' is (no matter what they might do to cause you to doubt your sanity (or theirs)) basically a good person and worth investing the time and effort to build (or sometimes rebuild) a relationship with.
Marriage is ideally a brisk guy and a bjj girl living in lakewood living on welfare. commited to raising children that will survive, outsmart, outwit, outlast the shidduch crisis.
At least that's the impression I get by observing the yeshiva world
to be a giving person, gracious and generous. My rebbi once told me " Marriage is not a 'give and take', rather it is a 'give and receive'. Wise words IMHO
"Care more about the other person than yourself."
I don't think there's really any true bottom line, though. There are many factors... and we 'dabble' as well, considering this is a central spot for all our friends - most of mine live within a block. (We've made two shidduchim, btw :) )
My wife and I only got married a year ago this month, so we don't have quite so much experience at what works, but I would share that the most important things for me was the realization that life is not about getting what I want, and that I can trust my wife in absolutely everything.
Wow, some of the above comments are really great. I want to add something that is relevant both for making the decision to get married, and then how to succeed at being married. Both people need to think of the other as a real person. For shidduch purposes, that means marrying someone for who they are, not just how they match up on the checklist in your mind. It also means expecting that they will have moods, faults, preferences, etc. and the other person knowing that you will also. This means understanding that men and women are different, as well as understanding that everyone is a unique person that will never meet every expectation and will sometimes be frustrating or annoying.
One of my rabbis in Israel told us that ifd you don't realize that men and women are different, you will think your spouse is crazy. His example was that his wife likes flowers, so he buys her flowers b/c he knows it makes her happy even though he doesn't get what there is to like about flowers.
Truly viewing each other this way also prevents common issues such as the wife essentially becoming a servant or the husband being forced to stay in a course that is not for him because his wife expects it (such as yeshiva or a high-powered career).
Great topic - I think I will work on some aspects of this in my blog as well.
SL,
I know this is a "marrieds only" thread but here's my stab at it.
First, may you continue to have single friends come to your home and make it a warmer and happier place and help them meet their "bashert" in the proper time so that you, like Ezzie, can boast of some grandiose number of successful shidduchim :)
Personally, I think it comes down to communication, respect, a deeply rooted desire to be there and give your all to another person, not having unrealistic expectations (though that relates to the rest of life, too), and a commitment to shared goals and values (spiritual, physical, materialistic, and emotional).
If I'm wrong please tell me so that I can adjust my outlook before my next date!
I don't think there's one single element. But here's my stab at it:
You want to make that person happier, even if it means some diminution of your own happiness, because that will make you happy. In other words, if you are arguing, you will stop arguing and concede a point, because ultimately her happiness is more important than your being right. (and let's face it, guys, we're usually wrong.)
I'm not talking about total sacrifice of self, but a willingness to subordinate your needs to that of the relationship. Kind of like joining the Borg.
Oh, and give up on silly Star Trek analogies. Most women don't get them, especially if they see pictures of Seven of Nine.
Michael. You are certainly headed in the right direction. Keep dating and we look forward to hearing good news!
The big three that I mention to couples who come to me are: trust, respect, and communication.
If you can't trust the other person, don't even consider getting married. And if you are married and lose the trust, it will never come back. You will be forever watching over your spouse's shoulder.
Respect has been covered by others. It means seeing the other person as an equal. Which also means with the right to say no, to disagree, to be pigheaded and demand to have his or her way, on occasion. We all do it ourselves, we should allow our other half the same luxury. Once in a while at least :)
Communication means not only talking openly and honestly. It means listening to the other person. Realizing that the two of you got into the marriage because of deep feelings about each other. That you saw tremendous worth in your partner.
It also means not having exclusionary activities. I am going to X and you can't come. That is not acceptable. The offer has to be made to join; there is no obligation to join in, but the offer must be made. To not do that will start breeding distrust (See point one above). Not many guys will join the girls at the spa, and just as many women would hang with the guys at the bar. But to not allow your spouse the opportunity to say "no thanks", in my feeling, is wrong.
All these answers sound terrific. (although I am single, so what do I know, right?) ;)
Jdub, what you said is basically the premise of what Rabbi Aryeh Pamensky says in his talks. It's the man's job to make his wife happy because she steers the relationship. And in turn will make you even happier.
When I date I look for shared values and goals and a willingness to be open to others' opinions and viewpoints.
The concern I have for blanket statements such as "The man's job is to make his wife happy" is that it might negate the man's needs. If his whole function is to please his wife how about his needs?
Every person has needs. To deny that is to say the person is not human. Some people are needier than others, though. But everyone has needs.
And if your needs are not being met by your spouse you might seek to have them met elsewhere, and/or you might start to resent your spouse for not meeting your needs. This is true for both men and women.
The idea that a man should totally sublimate his needs to his wife's is akin to saying a man should never cry; that he should never show emotion. We know that that is an extremely harmful position to take; it really damages men, cripples their emotional abilities.
Men cry. And need to learn to cry openly. Men also have feelings and needs. And have to be in touch with them and learn how to express them in a loving and caring way. Not wait until all the bottled up feelings, dormant for decades suddenly explode in a volcano of anger and bile.
I would say it is each spouse's job to make the other one happy. To openly express that his or her needs are not being met.
This can be done in different ways. Some are helpful, others harmful. And that is where communication comes in (see my previous post of my big 3).
If a person puts the need on him or her self, saying I am feeling that me need is not being met, there is a greater chance of a positive response from the spouse than by claiming "You are not meeting me need!" If no blame is allocated, but instead a feeling is expressed about a lacking you have, then your partner who loves you dearly would certainly not want you to remain hurting. In fact your spouse might even look into him or herself and ask if there was something lacking in his or her interaction which cause you to feel this way.
However, if an accusatory finger is pointed then the walls of defense rise and logic is thrown out the window.
It's all a matter of how one communicates the feeling.
OK. This is going to sound really simplistic, probably because I'm not married and don't have a clue, but...
From what I observed, successfully married are couples, are more than just loyal spouces and committed partners. They are also very close friends, who take the time to understand the other's point of view and share in each other's interests. They are completely open with each other and are very supporting, no matter what happens. That may seem very obvious, but I don't really think it is. Many people forget that these factors, too, are important in a relationship. Moreover, I think, they view marriage as something more than a more convenient way to meet individual needs.
I'm with NJ Rabbi. My point was meant to be egalitarian, but, as a guy, I was talking from a guy's perspective. ("No, Lloyd, there are enough guys, be a man.") (Little '80s pop reference.)
Each member of the couple needs to diminish their own needs slightly to the betterment of the other. NOt totally sublimate their self to the other, but ever so slightly.
But the guys do need to give up on the star trek.
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